- Increase janissary cost to total 180-250 (currently 60 food 100 gold =160)
- Increase their castle age stats to 100 health 20 damage (90-16 currently)
- Balance %50 bonus damage from ALL ranged unit (taking bonus from all of them is broken)
- Reduce bonus damage againts cav to 1.5x (2x currently)
- Increase Elite janissary upgrade to normal 300 food 700 gold (currently 150-350)
- Elite upgrade gives 15 health 4 damage make it 30 health 8 damage
- Increase their range to 4 tiles just like normal cannoner
um?? So what’s the counter to your version of Jans?
I have confirmed this PUP build treats Janissary as a RANGED infantry unit… this I confirmed by testing Jans vs horseman and Mangonel.
The horseman DID inflict bonus damage upon striking the Jan…
Likewise the mango with a direct attack did 81 dmg!! Which is 3 27 attacks… which is 1.5 (build-in penalty) times 1.5 (bonus vs range) times 12 dmg.
So with this I personally can conclude this iteration of the game things Janissary are RANGED UNITS. Also maybe “Gunpowder Infantry” is just a typo and it should read “Light Ranged Gunpowder Infantry”? Either way we’d have to see what gets released in Oct to know for sure.
same counters as Streltsy and other hand cannoners or balance it with a specified ranged unit not all of them
standart cannoneers does 5 less damage cavs than jans with their bonus (full upgrade on both)
uhm a unit using rifle is not gunpowder range unit is not logical either im againts that as well but even that way they can be countered by archers that would be balanced maybe but why they are taking %50 more damage from every range unit.
@Shneider177 take example of Streltsy they have 90-90 cost its close to 60-100 of jans. Their stats are same with hand cannoners and they are shooting even faster than jans when their special ability is on.
So basically you want AoE 2’s Janissary?
Remove all counter-bonuses, make them a stronger hand-cannoneer with more range. Got it. That’s boring.
IMO you should compare base units in order to find the “rock, paper, scissors” standard matchup; upgrades and what not can be factored in later.
Standard IMp HC have 130 hp, 0/0 armor, 4 range, 35 attack, 2.12s attack speed cost 240 res; trains in 35s
Standard Imp Jan has 105 hp, 0/0 armor, 3.5 range, 20 base attack (20 bonus vs cav), 1.75s attack speed, cost 160 res, trains in 28s
NOw bit each of these units in a decent clump vs heavy/light cavalry? one unit out ranges the other unit by 0.5 tiles (somewhat impactful although not much kiting will be going on vs cav without body blocking) and the other guy (the jans) does 6 more DPS (before armor)? IMO it appears the jans deal with cav quite efficiently as the specialist they are and for cheaper than HC?
Maybe we should compare a Jan to a crossbow?
not exactly . I want them to be a strong unit but ofc there should be some counter bonuses like archer for example. No need for more range but their range is already shorter than everyone so equaling them to other cannoners is okay.They shouldnt be strongest unit ofc but they should beat HC at least.(being slightly better than them is okay imo.)
I could see them being a bit stronger, but they should retain some quirkiness. The counter-cavalry bonus is good. Just like the streltsy would be a very boring unit if not for their standing bonus.
The only 2 units that PARTLY overlap with the Jans unit type speciality is the crossbow (age 3) and the HC (age4).
HC and crossbow can level the knights if given proper body blocking YET, horsemen hard counter crossbow/HC in an open field.
The Jans however in age 3 (16 by 16 vs cav with 3 range on a 1.75s attack) kills ALL cavalry FASTER than crossbow AND HC (in age 4?)
yes yes removing %50 damage bonus is overreacting from me sorry bout that but i really do thing taking it from ALL range units are so much.
yea i know they are a new unit type but thats make them losing another unit type i do think that should be covered by power since unlike Malians , Ottos just have replacements.
Dont think its good to compare crossbow and jans just because of both counter cavalry because Otto’s have crossbow , jans are not replacement for crossbow but HC
I like playing with streltsy , especially on team games they become a game changer
I think I can get you to see what would happen if they made the Jans into a standard gunpower RANGE unit
Imagine age 4 Rus: Streltsy + knights/horsemen + GREAT BOMBARD!! Oh and streltsy can repair the bombards KEKW… streltsy can REPAIR the freaking great bombard.
What’s the counter to this combo if you’re not like abbasid with culverins?
Streltsy would eat all rushing cavalry, GB eats all enemy infantry, and the knights/horseman work as anti siege sniping culverin/springs???
GG no next?
Oh I forgot 1 unit can sit inside Great Bombard and make it reload 25% faster…
well great bombards are fragle and very slow without putting someone inside of it. Jans can stay as gunpowder infranty and take bonus damage from some ranged units (i just oppose to taking from everyone but maybe reduce it to %30-40? if every ranged unit is gonna have it , or let it be %50 and we can see if its too bad or balanced) streltsy + rus cav + standart cannon is same scenario (maybe a little bad maybe a little better) so its hard to counter anyway it needs micro movement to deal with it.
NO its not? Rus Bombard doesn’t do SPLASH dmg NOR bonus dmg to infantry? Nor do streltsy REPAIR their siege in combat!
streltsy attack much more faster they can just destroy everything come near , rus cav is better than otto cavs , you can split your army and use formation to reduce effects of splash damage effectively and jans cant shoot while repairing anyway. Ik its very strong combo but rus version is very strong as well.
Streltsy EVEN with their Attack speed buff to 1.58s attack speed, comparing base dmg to base dmg; JANS STILL do more DPS to cavalry than Streltsy! and Jans are CHEAPER still (by 20 res). And jans do NOT have to remain stationary for 10s; so their only drawback in this comparison is Jans 0.5 LESS tile range? That’s not all significant when you’re defending off horseman/knights; what’s impactful is the raw DPS AND how Jans do NOT take bonus dmg from horseman while all HC types do.
well if u check the stats i give on top (i dont demend it just similiar stuff would be nice imo) its almost same againts cav with current state. Being cheaper is not importants since that buff containts icrease at price to balance it.That way jans can be a expensive ,strong , little better againts cav so this way jans would be an essential power in imperial-castle(mostly imp) of Ottos who have a weak early game since they dont have proper eco bonuses and all of their units are standart as well (sipahi is good but they are same with horseman except their ability which is bad at close combat)(mehter is not much of a help in fedual as well)
Jannissaries are hell of a weak now…Standart HC’s are better even against Cavs as they have more range and more durable then jannis…Jannis are extremely weak for their big cost…Even standart Xbows are better then jannis in most cases…Jannis cant deal with heavy infantry as well…I watched all pro-aoe4 casters they all stated that jannis are seem so weak.
my suggestion is ;
+Regular Jannissaries 20 dmg 4 range 100g 80 f
+Elite Jannissaries 30 dmg 4.5 range 100g 80f (+200g elite upgrade cost)
+Decrease ranged dmg taken to %25
or if devs want to make jannis a trash gunpowder unit then they should decrease jannis gold cost to 60 or something.
But they need to add Handcannonneers to Ottomans as well.
Problem solved 11
100 gold unit which dies against almost everything …Mangonels , archers , towers , xbows , javaliners , mangudais , armored infantries even heavy cavarlies , eleps HELL NO xD 11
Even jannis are complately erased and standart HC’s are given i think Ottos will be better xD 11
I really don’t understand the Jan role. They are anti-cav ok. But you build spears to get anti-cav, and HC to everything else.
Spears+HC it’s way better than spears+Jan.
Like, HC actually performs well against everything, and +50% damage taken from all ranged it’s like your jans will be smashed by everything.