Great to see the improved zoom.
But I remember the game is so perfectly designed for the current zoom level that changing it slightly will hurt you.
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not for now , its just zoom for more competitive players , i preffer my other current zoom tbh
Even if China is the worst performing civ and has only one redeeming grace being late game siege+grandiers, due to the massive amount of complaining the devs are pretty much forced to adress it.
I think it is reasonable to shift the civ strenghts, because balancing a high risk high reward in 1v1 is really hard if poeple in multiplayer apparently get to post imperial for free everytime.
Now as the PUP exists to get feedback we should give constructive feedback to the devs so we can achiveve some consensus, but first we should see how these changes really affect the game.
My initial impression is that China was pretty weak before and these changes make it even weaker, while the French were too strong and benefit greatly from the siege changes and the buff they got to the royal academy. I hope i am wrong, but if not we should be more vocal about it (not whine) so the devs get a clear picture.
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i agree with you this time 
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i will say that it may be too late for the patient player.
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lol fair
20 characters
The point is that we are 6 months in, and this PUP is how the game should’ve been at launch. Scenario editor, zoom, player colors, most bugs fixed.
I did expect at least minuscule new content like more animals or a new unit across all existing civs. Oh well…
Age of Eternal Siege Balance.
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The thing about siege balance now its that this is the first GOOD change to finally finish siege , it looks more realistic now + better for healthier matches with use of UNITS
Now they can do what you wanted , now the game is ready for new stuff!
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I really, really wish you are right, but I’ll shelve the game until that mythical new content arrives and if it’s in the form of a DLC, it’d have to be something more than just a couple new civs.
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lets be positive for now! and see what season 3 may give us or… lets wait until E3 , then we can beggin to speculate !
mm… 6 months waiting gets boring imo
Grenadier was absolutely broken and had to change. It was a spam to win unit, and now it will still be a good unit but a supportive one with the new Spirit Way.
The hand cannoneer numbers I gave are based on:
- Great Wall (+25% damage to ranged units on walls anywhere)
- Stone Wall (+2 range to ranged units)
- Pyrotechnics (+1.5 range to hand cannoneers)
- Spirit Way (+20% attack speed if procced)
There are many cases where mega buffed hand cannoneers on a wall would be effective in team games, Mountain Pass for example. Aside from that, Zhuge Nu is not bad in Imp, and it will be better with Spirit Way.
Let’s consider some of the upsides of this patch:
- Cheaper granaries, it will probably make a big difference.
- Non-Clocktower NoB will take 3 springald shots to kill instead of 2 (4 with Siege Works).
- Clocktower NoB will take a whopping 6 springald shots to kill with Siege Works.
- Fastest shooting bombards in the game with the most HP.
- Spirit Way half price & half research time Ancient Techniques, not to mention this also applies to dynasty unit upgrades.
- Spirit Way buff will not be weak with the boosted attack speed and heal over time.
- Potential for mega buffed hand cannoneers on walls with 52 damage and 7.5 range (also +20% attack speed if you can trigger the Spirit Way buff).
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So let me get straight. You don’t want game to have single unit comps? Ok
So why its alright for other civs to have spam to win units? French knights halo? English LB spam? HRE MAA? Abbasid spamming camels?
Literally all the civs pick one path to go and rush mass of units and win fights.
Grenadiers were strong but do you know what? How many civs needed to spent 3600 resources extra TO UNLOCK UNIT?!?! Plus grenadiers were expensive 240 resources to make - discount from spiritway
Now that spirit discount is gone and grenadiers are nerffed. Why waste resources on support unit that has limited usage when you can spent the resources on army and end the game? Look what happened to FL. Unit that was shit was nerffed to shit and no one ever even bothers thinking making them.
Same applies to all dynasty units. All of them are way too expensive to unlock and no other civ is needed to do anything to unlock their units
Way too situational and assuming that opponent bothers picking up fight on wall or even letting your wall be up. Just break the wall wide open and your bonuses are irrelevant or go around it or run cavalry past. Pointless bonuses that are very situational and hardly useful.
This is the best change of whole situation but still hardly worth anything that china lost.
Useless. Cavalry does one charge and your nob is gone. Spears cannot protect siege. Cavalry is most effective way to take down siege and especially with new changes makes it even better and has wider range of use than springalds. Top of that other civs will completely outperform chinese siege by having superior options and with lower of hp requires lot less cavalry dmg to take down siege now.
“yay” you can now reload bit faster before dying but not getting extra shots out at all. Pointless unless killing walls or keeps.
Useless downgrade. For example elite FL upgrade costs 1k resources so you save now 500, but it costs 1800 resources to unlock FL. Again Zhuge nu saves 500 resources but costs 600 to unlock and bad unit overall especially in late game.
Losing the -30% reduction vs having 50% reduction on dynasty upgrades is fuckin joke. Players create anywhere from few hundred units per game. But in sake of argument. Lets say I make 100 grenadiers so 100x 240 resources thats 24k resources and 30% from it is 7.2k resources saved. So yeah. Fuckin huge downgrade.
100% research speed fuckin joke when IO can supervise upgrade speed 150% so its downgrade again.
ONLY benefit is from ancient techniques which AGAIN is tied to dynasties which are way too expensive to achieve. China spents 600+ 1800 + 3600 x2 resources to unlock ONE active bonus that other civs get for price OF ONE and 4 different bonuses.
Useless. No one who has brain will take a such fight that player can benefit such way. All they do is avoid fighting near wall and because handcannoneers cannot out range cannons or trebs it just means you waste resources on walls while opponent does army.
These changes are shit. Barbican for lategame is good and granary. Everything else is pure shit
3 Likes
Thanks for getting this up from Steam Karma, it’s greatly appreciated 
Basically 20 vills garrison inside TC can pop in/out two times to two shots ram without losing any vill if micro correctly, this is a really bad idea as it strongly encourages a booming play. @SavageEmpire566 could you please inform the dev about this concern?. I don’t think ram needs any nerf (might even need a buff imo) as it is very costly to invest in a ram (150 for Blacksmith, 175 for the research, and 300 for each ram). This means that why would you even invest in making 2 rams, when it is more expensive than making a 2nd TC (as it gets sniped out easily).
I think it is actually nice if the cost for TC increase a bit like to 350-400 stones or something to make more variety in this current booming meta.
So let me get straight. You don’t want game to have single unit comps? Ok
So why its alright for other civs to have spam to win units? French knights halo? English LB spam? HRE MAA? Abbasid spamming camels?
Literally all the civs pick one path to go and rush mass of units and win fights.
Grenadiers were strong but do you know what? How many civs needed to spent 3600 resources extra TO UNLOCK UNIT?!?! Plus grenadiers were expensive 240 resources to make - discount from spiritway
The problem is when there isn’t a counter.
LB spam = horsemen, HRE MAA = crossbows, French Knights = spears
With Camel Archers there’s a problem too, but less in this patch because they won’t counter siege with the increased resistance.
Now that spirit discount is gone and grenadiers are nerffed. Why waste resources on support unit that has
Do you really think they are that nerfed to where they will be useless? Just put a meatshield in front and they will still AOE things to death.
Useless. Cavalry does one charge and your nob is gone. Spears cannot protect siege. Cavalry is most effective way to take down siege and especially with new changes makes it even better and has wider range of use than springalds. Top of that other civs will completely outperform chinese siege by having superior options and with lower of hp requires lot less cavalry dmg to take down siege now.
Still the most tanky siege in the game. Still the best Bombards in the game. All siege is more vulnerable in this patch so I’m not sure what your point even is.
Useless downgrade.
Funny you did not care to address the Spirit Way unit buff, because it’s nothing to scoff at.
20% attack speed boost and heal over time buff is a much more interesting bonus than something that basically railroads you into either mass Grenadier or Fire Lancer landmark cheese.
Useless. No one who has brain will take a such fight that player can benefit such way.
You can use it offensively, you know? Chinese can build walls super fast.
And on defensive maps surely you can see there is some use of these wall buffs, especially since China has a siege advantage.
LB spam = Say hello their 360 degree spikes which actually slaughter horses
HRE MAA = Sure if they can force MAA to fight bad fight where MAA cant surround them. But MAA from HRE has move speed bonuses but sure works lot better but still effective to go MAA pushes.
French knights = Spears HAHAAHAH. Nope. Biggest mistake that I see ppl doing is to try fight knights / lancers with spears. Once again unless you can take favorable engagement meaning choke point fight without allowing cavalry to surround spears they dont stand chance. 1 spear doesn’t counter 1 knight and because both are 1 supply each. 100 knights will beat 100 spears. Ofc knights are more expensive to make but especially in TG’s it super easy to get infinite gold and food AND if cavalry is french knight they got 364 HP in imperial top of that -20 production cost/speed so they can overwhelm your spears VERY easily making it strongest unit in game.
Not alone the fact that what your spears do against knights that run around? You need to literally send 1.5x-2x numbers of spears to follow knights while french can just sent 2-3 waves from other direction which means you’re forced to either start turtling and staying inside your base with no map presence while french or any civ that goes cavalry gets full map control and by the time you move out they have so huge economic lead which results you to get fucked.
You say there is not counter play to grenadiers? Kidding me?
Civ that has one of the worst feudal ages and subpar castle age and you tell me you cant do anything to stop china to spent 4800 food and 2400 gold to 2x landmarks?
Then the fact that couple of mangonels out ranged grenadiers and outright killed them. Then the fact that if you used archers with C formation / manual splits you could neglect LOT OF dmg from grenadiers. Plus you can overwhelm grenadiers easily with cheap units because they once again are really expensive units to make even with the discount.
Plenty of counter play but seems like AOE4 players are failures of executing counters when it comes down anything else than right clicking
Dude. “most” tanky doesn’t mean jackshit when siege dies when something farts at their direction. They can have 10k hp but if they die in nano second they’re worthless. Costs 6 pop and 1k resources way too expensive on unit that cant be protected other than trebs behind walls and keeps.
Best bombards great countered by everything in game. Useless. Cant be produced effectively, cant be reinforced effectively, cant be protected, cant kill trebs, cant be healed effectively anymore. Gj being best at eating shit
Sure its interesting but you still fail to understand. Why would anyone make units that are most expensive units to get in game and expensive to make as support unit or useless raiding unit when there is better options available? If grenadier is not strong unit and cant be utilized as primary source of dmg for army who wants to invest 2400 food and 1200gold on unit that they might make 10 or 20? TOO EXPENSIVE.
Same is with FL. Why would anyone invest 1200 food and 600 gold on raiding unit that player might make handful at best and can be just shut down by making a stone wall? NO ONE.
If the unit has limited uses and meant to fill one specific role then it NEEDS to be easily accessible with no additional costs.
HRE would never make prelates unless it was to give them gathering buff and relics. No one uses them to buff army and hardly ever to use them to heal. Too easy to snipe and very niche usage and yet time after time they try to force HRE to make prelates and make them part of their army and push them to put relics to keep.
“super fast” It was already nerffed to ground it takes way longer to build walls and now that walls will be squishier what stops opponent just to destroy it or killing your villagers? You live in some RP dream world where you think you can start pushing walls to opponents base without any reaction from enemy. Maybe in 1k elo this works but not higher levels.
By the time this tactic becomes relevant the game has gone so long already and opponent is most likely also in imp so the wall is useless and if you’re in position where you can afford to start putting stone walls up offensively then you would just win by marching to their base and killing them.
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It think it’s a decent patch, the torches change was a must, now cav is a proper counter to siege, before, you have to watch them die while slowly using torches, a cav charge should clean siege fast as in reality… This will make the flanking more important. Castles needing stone to repair is also a good change, may be this will stop the ridiculous amount of castle/tower spam in this game or the ridiculous castle vs castle approach, it seems that relic is looking for more realism, hopefully some day they will realize how stupid looks to watch castles fighting other castles…
IMO the next change should be to make arches fight in melee with reduce dmg when other units engage them in melee l, this was in close beta I think, that kind of mechanics make the game unique and fun, they should continue with that approach for a expansion and make the game s little bit more complex, simplistic games tend to be boring or repetitive…
What I see around here is a lot of players using China (some previously known for their great bias) and they only know how to tarnish this thread.
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An urgent nerf has been requested from the grenadiers here.
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Here an urgent nerf has been requested to the Chinese bombards (now they will have a clearer counter).
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Here a cost reduction has been requested from the Barn.
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Best Landmarks for China have been requested here. The Barbican will now have a chance for emplacements, among other changes.
What many do not take into account is that the rams were nerfed, and if that continues (I think not), the defensive game will prevail more than the offensive one and it is an indirect BUFF to CHINA.
Try the PuP first and then complain, there have been a lot of changes.
Siege changes look great, it is way too dominant at the moment and giving horsemen an actual role in the late game plus the slight buff vs archers is castle and imp is great. Late game was just so miserable in my opinion so hopefully this shakes things up.
Chinese mains are crying because they won’t have unkillable bombards with 12 range but there should be more to a civ than they aren’t great for the first 45 minutes but if you survive then you auto win. It is fair to suggest they may need some buffs aside from the firelancer one but time will tell. French only getting buffs seems a little odd.
Being able to change colors is long overdue but I’m thrilled it is finally here
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