Iron pagoda, I think it get much useless in game. Ignore 1 melle attack but all other just same paladin, hp more less than them too, and reloaded time too long. I feel this UU need some change example reduce time ignore attack from enemy or something. Jurchen some bad in this DLC
5 Likes
Agreed, the unit definitely needs a buff. Currently I think it’s hard to find a scenario for them to perform
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Iron Pagodas are such a dissapointing UU (and I was expecting them surprising Monaspas in OPness).
Changes should be:
- Swapp costs from 80f 55g to 65f 60g.
- Elite gain +1 attack.
- Reduce PA from non elite from 3 to 2 (Currently Castle age Iron Pagoda is overtuned but never seen because of the high food cost).
- Reduce ROF from 2.28 to 2.1.
5 Likes
Iron pagodas are famous for being heavily armored. I think leaning more into that identity would be appropriate. Also could benefit from either an elite upgrade price drop or improved elite stats. Right now, it’s like a paladin upgrade in cost but has benefits more comparable to a cavalier upgrade. Having a lower gold cost makes them more spammable in post-imp than a paladin, but they aren’t really strong enough to act as a paladin replacement.
The iron pagoda is also competing against Jurchen steppe lancers, which is a strong unit that is easier to get to.
5 Likes
Against units that charge melee attack (Coustellier, Urumi, Romans), they will deflect that charge.
Yes. Stronger than cavalier but lower than paladin, but just like Byzantyn paladin, but if make higher armor it will same boyar Slav. I would like to think reload ignore armor can effect to pierce amour too, + reduce time reload.
Making the matchup especially painful for the coustilier given how strong his charge is
As I understand it, the charge attack won’t apply to the blocked attack and instead goes unused until the second attack (which does deal damage). So it isn’t deflected, just delayed.
2 Likes
What if instead of ignoring melee armor, it gets the Obuch effect but in reverse. This mean, each melee attack recived reduce in 1 point the attacker damage.
This fits with the heavly armored apperance of the unit and make them good in long term battles.
For cavalry thats super useless, most damage you will take will be from bonus or ranged damage.
The current vwrsion at least helps vs halbs
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Not much impact against spear-line (but also not 0 impact). Would be especially impactful when facing champions or other cavalry units. Pretty soon an opponent would find their units doing 1 dmg/hit. Although, Obuch armor shredding restores if an opponent is restored to max hp, so it could be made to only apply to injured units. It would be a bit of a weird gimmick though, and I don’t think iron pagodas were particularly known for blunting an opponent’s weapons with their armor.
I think testing would be needed to see how impactful it is, but the loss of damage output would make some opposing melee units practically useless (eventually) except against units they have bonus damage against.
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Jian Swordsman bonus is even more useless.
So they just get a buff for both of their UU.
- Grenadier
- HP increased from 35 → 40.
- Cost reduced from 35 food 70 gold → 35 food 65 gold.
- Attack increased from 11 → 12.
- Iron Pagoda
- Ability recharge reduced from 60 seconds → 40 seconds, Elite 50 seconds → 30 seconds.
- Upgrade cost reduced from 950 food 750 gold → 950 food 550 gold.
I think Grenadier will be good now. But Iron Pagoda still lose against Paladin which is disappointing. Then again their so low gold cost would make it unfair if they win against Paladin.
2 Likes
Same sense but it is new patch,
Still seems underpowered. I want 25 reg, 35 second Elite seconds so it beats paladin.
Edit: Increase cost to compensate. It’s literally supposed to be a heavy cavalry, not a Berber cavalier.
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I don’t think that regen time would allow iron pagodas to beat paladins. Also, at 80f/55g, Iron pagodas have the same total cost as a generic knight. It’s only when gold becomes a limiting factor (which is in late-imp) that Iron pagodas cost is better than knights.
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It would, right now, the regen time would give them the 1 extra hit they need to beat paladin. At least that’s what I remember from latest sotl video.
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Thing is they have very high PA unlike other Paladin killer mounted units. Camel, Leitis, Coustiler, Monaspa - all are weak against ranged units. Even Boyar is not as good due to low speed and 10 less HP. So this is a big concern for TG.
If you can only make it from a castle, it should be better than a paladin. Not really a big concerned for team game. Biggest concerns for team games are extremely tanky units, like over 300 hp units. Same reasonFrank paladins not OP late team games.
Furthermore, what the game calls a “Heavy cavalry unit”, feels like a Bulgarian or teuton Cavalier at best.
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Thye just can’t be simply straight up better than Paladin in every aspect otherwise you have a broken post-imp UU.
Lithuanian Paladins got nerfed for that reason, same for Leitis when lost 1 PA, Monaspa got nerfed several times.
3 Likes