Knights in feudal is problematic

Reducing the armour of both early Knights and MAA by 1/1 seems reasonable.
This way also spearman would trade a lot better.

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TC are only a threat in the ideal of diving it or attacking it. and empty TC fire is literally nothing to knight due to reduction pierce armor. you also ignored the fact that knights are priced in for french with landmark. so your comparison of resource isn’t intellectually honest.

it also isnt easier to macro food and wood, because ever single landmark requires gold. infact for french vs any civ its easier to outright max food (free from early sheep) and gold (required for landmark) than any other civ thats forced to move vills specifically to wood for spears.

you seem to make a lot of awful dishonest comparisons.

No definetly not. I disagree completely here. MAA in feudal not only loose pretty convincingly against knights but they are slower and don’t have a charge. If you build up a ball of MAAs the only thing you can effectively do is a Ram push in feudal. While knights can harass, pick off reinforcements, force you off your hunt, establish map presence and scout AND do a ram push with some archers (dont even need a lot).

Also, MAA can be kited way better by archers. Knights have more HP and bonus damage against archers. Eearly MAAs and early knights are nowhere near on the same level

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So you’re agreeing that its Frenchies that are being OP. TC shouldn’t be a threat to units unless garissoned if you notice his knights coming for your vills, obviously you go inside. Thats their entire point. Why would I buy expensive units just to be driven off by empty TC. Also its quite easy to macro for wood since you only need 20 per spearman compared to 100 for a knight. Not to mention its safer with your wood being closer to TC than miners. Without feudal knights, Rus and Frenchies have ■■■■ feudal gameplay.

And what a sad reply. His name and or post history hast nothing to do with the current topic. You showed some real bad discussion etiquette right there.

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yeah french are massively overtuned from eco and outright feudal timings (hulks and knight+regen) so people forget rus also run feudal knights. but my post isnt solely about french (although that seems to be the contention you’re making speicifically for why knights are okay but french are not)

feudal knights need to lose pierce armor or spears need to trade better or something else needs to be done.

I think you heavily underestimate the consequences of that idle time for your eco whenever you have to move your vils to your TC just because one knight charges in. Even if doesnt kill anything. The TC SHOULD be more dangerous to dive under for knights

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Yes, my entire argument is that Feudal knights are fine. Its all the Rus can really do in Feudal. Also, yes you lose eco time, but a knight will idle your eco for what, 10 seconds? Your spears would also be just nearby as well.

i think he’s a french/rus player. i get the allure of easy wins, i myself won a handful of games in a row mongol cheesing.

You should get it by now that I mostly play HRE, but I do play Abassids and Rus. I’ve had faster and easier wins just MAA rushing someone or spamming camel archers.

Wrong.

Didnt you say something like “look at the top of leaderboard and see they all play french?”
To my knowledge leadboard doesnt track Civs atm. Never said also i have an allure of “Easy Wins”. I just honestly think, that there is people who think way to 1-Dimensional in a lot of regards, and focus more on the supposed other Civs OPness over playing into their own Civs Strengths :slight_smile: My winrate is around 55% - you win some, you loose some.

Also @MeshuggahRaw Discussion was averted by OP onto the watertopic. After i made a statement that i dont see people complaining about Rus Early Knights, which might be a hint that the Chivalry updgrade might be an issue. Which was also stated in the topic earlier, which is by the way, about the general “feudal knights” issue.
Furthermore did OP not answer my Question in what ranges of Elo we are talking. He talks about “any of the streamers and youtubers there”. Which accounts on how many per cent of players of the top 200?

Anyways, enjoy your rants. I prefer to use my energy to think of builds/compositions/strategies to win against the supposedly overpowered Civs :slight_smile:

Didnt you say something like “look at the top of leaderboard and see they all play french?” To my knowledge leadboard doesnt track Civs atm.

nice strawman. unfortunately for you logical fallacies dont win debates.

" go look at leaderboards and watch any of the streamers/youtubers there "

i said look at leaderboard and use the streamers/ecelebs in that board to see what high elo games consist of - and guess what? its large majority french/rus. why? because playing anything else is a complete waste of time if you’re serious about winning for rank.

I just honestly think, that there is people who think way to 1-Dimensional in a lot of regards, and focus more on the supposed other Civs OPness over playing into their own Civs Strengths :slight_smile: My winrate is around 55% - you win some, you loose some.

cool anecdotes from a self professed 55% winrate. ironic you are talking about elo and attacking me over my name instead of debating honestly - yet your win rate is barely above 1:1? what do you consider your elo range to be? because even bottom of barrel can get above 1:1 winrate by just spamming french knight openers.

Discussion was averted by OP onto the watertopic. After i made a statement that i dont see people complaining about Rus Early Knights, which might be a hint that the Chivalry updgrade might be an issue. Which was also stated in the topic earlier, which is by the way, about the general “feudal knights” issue.

no it wasn’t. you’re the one who tried to equate french solely being the problem when the topic is about feudal knights. i simply stated (to your asking) that french are at the forefront because they’re extremely meta (due to being way overtuned in eco + effectively untradable on water maps from feudal hulks).

Furthermore did OP not answer my Question in what ranges of Elo we are talking.

do you think outright lying when people can see your posts is a good debate strategy? i gave you the leaderboards as proof that the highest of elo is large majority french and rus. is your entire shtick just dishonest debating? first you attacked the writer (my name), then you handwaved refutations (hilariously erroneous claims of outproducing french on water) and now you’re just outright lying.

Anyways, enjoy your rants.

nothing of substance from you yet.

I prefer to use my energy to think of builds/compositions/strategies to win against the supposedly overpowered Civs

yes i’m sure with a barely 1:1 winrate, your time is better spent thinking than actually playing.

There is no problem with feudal knights. The problem with France is that in addition to feudal knights and excellent navy, excellent artillery and excellent crossbowmen, their economy is also very good, and you can enjoy it without additional learning (the training speed in the countryside is reduced).

The current feudal knight is no problem, he is a challenge, but players with tight defenses can successfully defend against cavalry attacks and upgrade themselves to the castle age. In fact, I appreciate that developers dare to design feudal knights and force players to do it because of the enemy. Instead of always using the same set of tactics to deal with all types of civilization.

Please don’t go back to the age of AOE2. I want to see more asymmetric and different civilizations, not just different civilization names and some different rewards. In fact, they all feel the same when playing (I appreciate the courage of AOE3 for this point).

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So true! There is nothing wrong with a feudal knight. 10 spearmen with an outpost is enough to deter raids. The problem is their Jack-Of-All Playstyles, French are just too good at everything besides maybe Barracks units.

The fact that you have to invest so much in outposts and spearmen just to stop a few early knights is a problem. Having to spend wood building outposts and spearmen while the rus/french player uses it to build archers to counter your spearmen makes feudal knights a problem. Feudal knights shouldn’t be removed imo, but they should either make the costs of early knights higher in feudal age than castle of imperial and/or nerf the health and/or armor of early knights and bring them back to normal once they’ve been upgraded in the castle age.

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This is also why I believe the cost of an outpost should be 100wood and 25stone, stone has always been a staple of defensive buildings, unsure why it was changed. Reducing the wood cost to half would mean the defending civ can use that wood for more archers. Also the ability to upgrade outposts to better versions after giving them arrow slits, should be a given which will increase their longevity.

France is the best booming civ in game , they can outboom any civ while keep making knights . That’s how strong they r .

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Outpost should not cost stone , that will make early tower impossible , normally u don’t have close stones and enemy can deny u stone easily .

Idk about that, stone actually spawns relatively nearby, its 1 stone, 1 gold, 3 sheep, 6 berries, and 1 wood-line per tc spawn. Just put 1 extra vill on the stone and you will have enough to pay for several towers by the 3:00min mark. You probably don’t even need to build a mine truthfully.

But then u need invest in mine camp early for stone , which will delay ur age up or ur barracks , becoz most civ don’t have spare 50 wood at start .