Knights in feudal is problematic
I don’t think so. Healing Knights in Feudal Age is problematic, especially when backed up by insane eco bonuses.
Knights, which can’t regenerate are a strong option, but also expensive and have counterplay (especially because damaging them with TC/Tower-arrows actually does something).
Spears exist. You garrison them in your outposts or TC. Get loom. Like what Toho said, the real problem is insane eco and healing in Feudal.
I definetly agree that the Feudal knight in it of itself is the problem. Idc about the Eco bonuses of the French or their other bonuses (except for the Hulk of course), because the knight alone prevents me from getting any map control or acess to my hunt in feudal.
People want to keep the early knight? Fine, make pikes do way more damage to them or reduce their pierce armor by a lot so that they can’t dive TCs just like that. The unit is very oppressive and should either be removed or nerfed so much that the French needs to think twice about engaging with them into spears.
In AoE 2 a fight between an even number of spears and knights is won by the knights but it comes at a heavy cost for the knights. In AOE 4 sometimes no knights die which ist just unacceptable
yep well said, i should of elaborated more in my post but you summed up my sentiment nicely. knights in feudal are problematic.
We should make them less problematic.
Either give other better ways to counter them early (like Feudal Age Crossbows for China) or weaken them or the Civilisations behind them in early game.
Early MAA are also problematic, just that they are overshadowed by early Knights.
I agree. Armored units in a time where no one has acess to anti armor damage makes ram pushes very toxic. Though as you said the MAA is currently overshadowed by the knight
early MMA is not at all the same kind of problem as knights that seems horrible comparison. early MMA requires upgrade cost in feudal and still is almost entirely deterred by a single outpost unless you have large numbers.
early knights are absurdly broken because of pierce armor and that they trade way to effectively resource wise against even their hard counter spears.
funny thing is i never see anybody complain about Rus Early Knights.
might be cause they dont have Chivalry upgrade?
idk it seems like that because french is the most broken civ so people memory hole rus but yeah feudal knights is bad and both civs are meta right now
Meta on what level of Elo?
Also i personally dont have any problems playing against french. Neither on Water, nor on Land. Won the last 3 matchups against them.
go look at leaderboards and watch any of the streamers/youtubers there. 99% of games are french and rus. my 1v1 games are majority french/rus now that mongol cheese has lost its hype.
and you unironically said french aren’t a problem on water… i cannot take you seriously after that
Nope, i dont see the problem with french on whater. They get a Hulk which is more expensive. I can outproduce and play merry go around with his 1 hulk all day long while always poking at his fishing boats.
Seeing your Forum Name + your posts in most of the topics helped me form an impression about you also.
you’re never outproducing french on water that is a outright lie. the only way you’re outproducing french on water is if you all in wood and gold and fast feudal multi-docks. and if you do that, french are autowin due to their unrivaled eco bonuses at home. 1 hulk can solo many archer ships and 1 shot vills on shorelines. you talk about attacking fishing boats, but 1-2 hulks sitting at dock will deny you all day and unless you all in like aforementioned, you’re never having a dock.
so maybe you rush wonder? two players of same skill but one is french = french autowin 9/10 on water solely due to hulk
HRE gets MAA at feudal without need for upgrade. Also MAA have the same pierce armor, I believe its 4. Feudal Knights are annoying for sure but just a part of the game that you’ll have to play around with spears. The only real outlier here is French chivalry which should be a castle tech
yeah romans get free tech (but then you’d have to play HRE lol) but i dont see MAA anywhere near oppressive as knights because knights give map control and outrun almost every feudal unit unlike MAA and knights are priced in with landmark cost not requiring anything else unlike HRE requiring rax
Early MAA are more inherently problematic than early Knights.
MAA are supposed to counter Spearman, Archers and Horseman, and that’s all that some Civilisations have in Feudal Age.
So either they don’t counter what they are supposed to counter or it’s impossible to counter them for some civilisations (like Delhi and China).
Thats just french being OP. Its not the Feudal Knight itself thats broken, its French. And yes, MAA as HRE are pretty potent because they’ll be sieging TC by 7 if you’re not prepared. Knights are quite the gold investment, 100 gold and countered by spears which have no problem + TC fire to fend off. You just need to invest a little more into an outpost for your miners and loom to be safe.
I’ve won much more games as HRE than lost. You’re at Age 2 around 4:40 and you can mass MAA pretty easy. Of course going for a MAA rush leaves you really open to attack yourself.
Like what Skadidesu said, Delhi and China is absolutely awful at repelling HRE rush. French/Rus can go for early Knight and go for HRE eco. Abbasid/Mongol can go horse archer while English have their own MAA and network bonus. Although I wouldn’t consider early MAA being OP as well, its just Delhi and China have awful feudal gameplay.
feudal knights can trade 1 knight per 2.5 spear men no ugprades if they arent stand ground braced. the resource isn’t a big deal (125 wood vs 100 gold), rus/french are already on gold for feudal landmark and hunting at that point is still no resource requirement. in french case knights are priced in better overall than spearman which require rax cost (wood).
french are overpowered so people memory hole rus, but truth is feudal knights are problematic regardless of either civ. french regen is more broken yes, but still both are bad for balance. they need pierce armor reduction so outposts and TC are real threats or increase spearman damage so they can trade effectively cost wise.
TC and outposts are always a threat. Feudal knights have 3 pierce. TC fire is 8 damage. A single knight is 240 worth of resources, a spearmen 80. Not to mention its easier to macro for food/wood than food/gold. Again, its Frenchies being OP. Royal knights get bonus charge damage plus their free stable and their eco. Rus knights are much more managable.