Firstly, let me answer the burning question: Why “?” instead of numbers? Well because I’ve realised that these numbers are pretty redundant when it comes to civ concepts, as they aren’t well tested due to the limited knowledge I have on modding and the limitations of the scenario editor. So instead, I think it’ll much more beneficial to focus on the text rather than just the numbers.
Hey guys, this time after a long break, I’m back with a new civ DLC concept, this time focusing on three Sub-Saharan civs (Kongo, Shona and Swahili). Starting with the Kongo.This civ DLC concept will be more gimmicky compared to the previous concepts, inspired by the latest DLC. It will feature a unique economic building, the Corral. This will be directly influenced by livestock pen/market present in AoEIII and Cattle Ranch/Mill in AoEIV. The Corral replaces the farms, and allows you to buy herdables in return for wood. Building a market will allow you to buy and sell herdables at a better price than just normal food (with the caveat of having to actually harvest the food after buying it). To sell herdables, you need to garrison them inside a Corral.
I need some feedback on the exact stats of their UU, the Shield Bearer, as it’s very much an unconventional unit with not much of a parallel in-game (the closest I can think of are Teutonic Knights). So any feedback is welcome.
Due to the overabundance of Tsetse flies and their hunger for horse and other mounted pack animal blood and desire to disease them, this is a civ where an alternative infantry scout feels appropriate.
Also I dont understand the Corral. Its a food provider but you need a market first? That feels counterproductive for aggressive play. In fact if Corrals REPLACE farms then being forced off external food eary means you are behind on the way up to Feudal since you have no food until you have a market and that’s brutal. It also sounds like its full of extra steps. If the building generated livestock on its own and you can then buy some after market for extra meat then thats great
I agree with both them not getting horse units and that relying on cattle is too harsh of a penalty in place of farms since farms is something you must rely on since Dark Age.
Not even Age of Empires 3 got rid of farms for African civs, they just got cattle trade on top of that.
UU is interesting, halb with pierce armor. Mangonels seems only counter to it + arbs?
First UT doesn’t do anything, you just get farmed by mangonels.
2nd UT does nothing, you can just build more archery ranges
Corrals just don’t work. First of all, you need both mill and market to use it, and it being linked with market prices just removes ability to buy food from teammates, and selling from enemies.
Due to the overabundance of Tsetse flies and their hunger for horse and other mounted pack animal blood and desire to disease them, this is a civ where an alternative infantry scout feels appropriate.
I don’t really try to focus on history much beyond the basics, because at this point it doesn’t seem like the AoEII devs do either.
Also I dont understand the Corral. Its a food provider but you need a market first? That feels counterproductive for aggressive play. In fact if Corrals REPLACE farms then being forced off external food eary means you are behind on the way up to Feudal since you have no food until you have a market and that’s brutal. It also sounds like its full of extra steps. If the building generated livestock on its own and you can then buy some after market for extra meat then thats great
The market is only required to enable buying and selling of livestock with gold. Without it, you can still train livestock with wood.
The team bonus is mostly for nomad style games, where scouting is much harder.
The first UT is supposed to increase viability vs cavalry, as testing has reveal unit bumping to be one of the main contributors to infantry losing vs cavalry.
If Chivalry works, then this will work as well.
I worded myself badly. Markets are only required to buy and sell livestock with gold. Without them, you can still train livestock with wood.
Gotta disagree here. The less scouting you need to do at home the sooner you can go out and lame an enemy boar instead. It also gives you eyes on whether the enemy is coming to lame you instead. What is with these less than week old trolls
I will half agree on the archery range TB. 30% is pittance. It translates to cutting time by less than 1/4. Chivalry is 40% for a unit with 192 HP and speed. Goths get 2x work rate. 30% is paltry but archery range workrate can be fantastic.
I disagree, it’s a pretty reasonable bonus (as long as the radius is long enough to get your own huntables visible) and you can bee-line to them immediately. You can scout far more efficiently with this.
I haven’t really played Age 3, so I have no idea what Corrals are actually meant to do. It’d probably be helpful if you actually wrote what the building does even if it feels redundant, this is the AoE2 discussion after all. If it’s something where you manually buy livestock from for some amount of wood, can this be automated like farm reseeds?
If it’s not automated, this will be immensely obnoxious to actually manage especially in the late game, where you’ll probably need to have a ton of villagers continuously harvesting livestock.
Shield Bearer looks similar to some other unit concept I saw on these forums recently, basically low base damage with a small bonus against cavalry, but tanky stats. I’m not sure how I feel about such a unit. I don’t think Hussite Wagon effect works on them that well, since (especially with the collision box reduced?) I’m pretty sure Hussite Wagons rely on collision to make use of their special effect.
Apologies regarding any confusion with the Corrals. I’ve already decided to post a new update that will smooth out some of the wording and have redone the Corral. Stay tuned for that tomorrow!
A gunpowder unit or two can help prevent that concern. Tsetse flies dont destroy those especially since merchants needed to travel around most of these nations by ship. Gunpowder was known about in Africa unlike in America
A Shield Bearer ha. Could also make an Kunene fighter (Engolo warriorpriest). Capoeira is the descendant of these warriorpriests.
At its height Kongo used to envelop also Angola and the north of Namibia. Here lived tribes with kingdoms that had a system of priesthood.
It started with warriors who protected the cattle or to raid enemy cattle, they were heavy spearmen that trained into martial arts with spears for melee and ranged weapons. Like a Roman hastati.
Later on this became bigger and it grew into the standardized soldier. Then they also became the Royal guards. And after centuries they became even warriorpriests, developping their skills into a martial art sort of like as we know it now.
They had a warriorpriest caste that served the king. And a spartan lifestyle for recruits which were kids that were trained in ‘protecting the herd’.
They trained to avoid ranged weapons like arrows and spears through acrobatics. Their acrobatics were part of the priesthood, only the most skilled acrobatics were allowed to become priests. Thus their ‘dances’ were seen as a blessing to whom (civilians) received them.
Later on there even were priestgames to practice and train, and to fight out to resolve matters.
When we arrive at the times of AoE3 their local kingdoms were defeated and they became a horde that were feared like the huns. The most famous travelled from the north of namibia to the north, to kongo. They were so strong everyone feared them, no other tribe could defeat their skills.
These people were called Kunene fighters, their martial art used to be called Engolo and it is based off the movement of zebras.
Source: ‘Fighting for Honor’ by T.J. Desch Obi - the history of african martial art traditions in the atlantic world.
Maybe to honour this that Shield Bearer could have a mechanic like the Shimvamsa rider to dodge arrows? And as animation something like a cartwheel or other acrobatics.
Maybe give them an ability to empower gathering units to increase their gather rate? Like the pharaohs do in Age of Mythology.
Disclaimer: its been a few years since i read this, it could be i’ve made some mistakes in writing this from memory.
Actually the tech Nsanga is directly inspired by that martial art/dance ritual, but yeah, I’m actually planning to change this tech to better reflect the martial art/warrior dance it is based on. Giving the Shield Bearer a dodge would break their purpose of being tanks. i think a better idea would be to give their other infantry something like a speed boost?
Good idea, but I feel like hand canoneers is a bit excessive in a civ that already has very strong archers and skirms. Same with BBC, I don’t want them to have strong siege cause I want their late game to be their weakest point. How about them having siege engineers and Siege Onagers? Would that be a nice compromise?
All things considered this civ is a slow one. Bombard cannons wont make them a late game powerhouse but it would be a good deterrent to Siege Onager dominance against them especially when you look at a tech that decreases their collision hitbox for increased stacking
This is an exaggeration, as far as I know, Kongo never went beyond the land area just south of the Cuanza River. I also never read about any class of priests like that in my readings about Kongo, but I prefer not to comment without reading this book first.
There really was a martial dance practice called “Sangamento” (maybe related to the term Nsanga) where the warrior trained acrobatics that allowed him to dodge arrows (which was very important, since this region of Africa was infamous for arrows with poison Cabanzo who killed in minutes). Father António Cavazzi reported that even Queen Nzinga in her ~80s was able to practice it well so essential was it for them. In fact, the elite Kongo warriors (the shield bearers) did not practice it, at least not while fighting in close formation. The rest of the army, made up of light infantry in open formation and without any protection, was the one who relied on this practice. In particular, the nomadic Imbangala bands (aka Jagas) were assiduous followers of this style of fighting. Nobody knows, but it may have been one of the origins of Capoeira.
Kongo also has some other bonus options: the Nziku/Tyo neighbors had archers who could fire 25 arrows before the first one touched the ground; Kongo had trained foot scouts called Pombo/Mpombo who could keep up with a horse without any problems; they also had religious objects that were imbued with powers called Nkisi (which could yield some bonus for relics or monastery perhaps); They also fought using a formation similar to that used by the Zulus; Kongo did not have gold (its currency was Nzimbu shells or copper shackles), but it was abundant in food and wood. They also had war canoes that could carry up to 100 warriors; the Imbangala and other people also built Kilombos which were originally military barracks — in fact, in an old concept I did for Kongo, the Imbangala Raider would be an anti-building unit weak to cavalry who could build towers (as a famous tactic of theirs was literally a castle drop into enemy territory), but the overall concept was bad lol and the devs brought in Serjeant. Anyway, I hope there is something useful in what I wrote.
(They could also have the mechanic of paying for technologies/constructions with villagers due to slavery. I know, it sounds pretty controversial. But it was basically the African analogue to European serfs at the time; the difference being that in Africa the labor force was much more important than land ownership and I think this mechanic would also represent this aspect a little. Feel free to ignore it, of course.)
Actually, I kinda like the idea of Kongo being a Monastery themed civilization. A bonus like Monk with Relic having an aura that improves your units in combat would be neat.
