I agree that the turtle ships are essentially the war elephants of the sea, but in all honesty I believe the price is too high on gold. Yes, I know it’s useful as a tank for ships behind it as an optional strategy, all that being said, I believe that Turtle Ship cost should mirror war elephant cost.
War elephant current cost: 170 food, 85 gold
Turtle ship current price: 190 wood, 180 gold
Turtle Ship preferred price: 170 wood, 85 gold
Even if you’re repairing your turtle ships, the cost of repairs is currently harsher on gold than purchasing a single war elephant, and I believe that should change or for ship repairs to only cost wood.
I don’t think it’s the cost so much that’s the problem. It’s the fact that they are really slow, and outranged, making them easy to outmicro. It’s not as bad with elephants, because unlike most ships, there are a lot of land melee units elephants can fight, whereas there are only 3 general purpose warships, and the one used most in the late game easily kites turtles, whilr the other two easily run away.
WUT Almost 100 gold discount? because “they’re the war elephant of the sea” VAT?
Nonsense, not a single legitimate arguement by your side.
They would be cartoonishly broken then.
They are units you can make when your trade is rich. Leave it at that.
Turtle ships currently cost 152 wood 180 gold.
Goes down to 122 wood 180 gold with Shipwright.
Yes one more Time op didnt check his “facts”
That would be fine, particularly with 85 gold as the price. Remember that on islands/team islands, etc, wood is allot more rare and limited than the possibility of food for war elephants. The price is still high for wood above 100, but it helps by keeping repairs a little more bearable below that. 61 wood and 42.5 gold for a ‘full’ repair is still pretty hefty going by normal wood costing units. Each time you fully repair one you’re essentially buying a fully new premium land archer type unit.
If one chooses to not research the wood cost reduction, then 170 wood as the base price would be more reasonable as a similar cost to a war elephant.
And, when choosing to research the wood reduction tech, it does help by making repairs bearable on the wood cost, but it does not make them inexpensive both to buy and to repair, simply bearable. They will still be costly, and the price will still limit them much like war elephants.
Turtle Ships are okay. Not great. Not bad. Just okay. Turtle Ships are like the Teutonic Knights of the sea: You make them when you’re already winning to win harder and faster. And so they will probably always be commonly used, and yet rarely seen, because using them in the situations it makes sense to use them ought to mean the GG is near.
except these ‘teutonic knights’ are 4x+ more expensive(gold) and not even relics can properly sustain them, not to mention the wood runs out far too quickly with how expensive they are. that being said, the war elephants are a little better of an example because of general power vs cost, and at the current cost these turtle ships deserve either a price reduction of great magnitude or for them to gain as much range as bombard canons/canon gals.
Turtle ships arent supposed to be sustained. They are tanks, meant to take a beating and absorb fire keeping other unjts safe. You’re not intended to make them the core of the army.
given war elephant price, how often do you see those as the core of the army even though food is highly accessible and the gold cost far lower than that of the current turtle ship cost?
not to mention the far lower ability to retain wood on island maps in the long run with regards to wood vs food in regards to war elephant vs turtle ship resource pools.
War elephants are food heavy not gold heavy.
Which makes them more sustainable then turtle ships.
And i see elephants in team games depending on the map. They are prerty commkn on closed maps or arena style maps.
Your also making an apples and oranges comparison.
The two units perform different roles.
Turtle ships are great at absorbing fire to keep the rest of your navy safe. (Think of it like using rams in front of your army to absorb arrow fire)
Elephants are a great late game punch in the mouth to overwhelm your opponent
war elephants are heavy on both food and gold, the gold limits them to a low end-number, and the food cost ensures they are thrown out at a lower rate. however in terms of the turtle ship the wood cost is too high for maps such as islands/team islands with such low amounts of wood available per player, thus it is better to ensure the wood cost is lower than the current as well as decreasing the gold cost to make at least repairs to not cost as much as a war elephant in terms of gold and in terms of wood to not cost so much of a very limited resource on such maps.
War elephants are a matter of time and patience to build them up, so are turtle ships.
War elephants can be healed for free, turtle ships cost an arm and a limb to repair.
War elephants can be maintained with excessive food and relic income as well as healing often, Turtle ships are bound to drop off by the time you hit 30-50 and be soundly countered with faster units or far cheaper demo ships while at the same time hurting the end-game by how costly it is on wood and gold not only to create them but so much so that even the basic repairs are out of proper reach due to the immense cost so much so that not even a solid 2-3 relics will cover it in a reasonable amount of time as well as the problem of the very limited wood supply which the relics will only cover for a short while when it runs out.
Elephants cost around the same gold cost as a knight (some less, some more).
Or maybe they just aren’t a unit youre supposed to mass.
Honestly, are you seriously talking about healing elephants?
I cant even remember this ever happening.
This just tells me you dont understand its role.
even war elephants are capable of having a near unlimited number if given enough time as long as wood powers farms and relics the gold.
Turtle ships have an expiration date, and one that is cut short far too early.
Their niche ‘role’ is far too basic and costly. sure, it can be of use, but it falters in the end too soon.
Two different units with two different roles.
Or maybe youre just using them wrong. Ive had great returns by just making 3 or 4 and putting them in front of my galleons
an alternative would be to make ship repairs free. allot of the cost is the time used to micro villagers to repair each ship. this would generally allow for increasing playerbase habit to maintain their navies rather than throw them away. If that were the case then there wouldn’t be a need to reduce these prices to bearable levels.
Korean naval strength is currently their siege onagers defensively at key choke points and thin water ways near the edge. The Turtle Ships are in need of some love.
I think UUs should be seen more often, not just in huge Teamgames with large trade up…
Surely Turtles and War Elephants both can be adjusted so that they’re seen more often, otherwise its the same old boring stuff with every civ…
You have it wrong.
Both of you have it wrong.
I can’t speak for imp, as I haven’t used them much in imp, but 2 turtles in early castle on nomad absolutely destroy any opposing ship and force the enemy into War Galley upgrade + Bodkin. Coupled with a castle drop, you annihilate your opponent either on water or on land, or both.
Turtle ships, just as against the Japanese historically, give a tactical advantage, not a head-on amazing unit.
No I don’t have it wrong. I’m just talking a full water map like Islands. Turtles might be great on nomad, but for a map like Islands, where the enemy will almost always tech in war galley and bodkin anyway, they just get kited so hard they aren’t viable.