Late Game Economy

Ranked game, 200 pop, 4v4 black forest. I was Khmer.

How many villagers or trade carts should you have in the late game? What of your villagers should be gold miners, stone miners, farmers, and lumberjacks for the late game.

In the late game gold mines and stone mines are virtually non-existent. It depends on your civs/ and the map as well. As Persians for example, you want lots of farmers, and trade carts to keep pumping out war elephants. If I’m playing a food and gold heavy civ, how strong is my economy? Note, there are some gold mines left, but they are nearly running out.

I saw players with no trade carts on the other team. I wiped the floor with them. Since I can spam elephants with ease with my golden economy. How strong is my economy? Do I have to many trade carts? I find they helped me a lot.

I am bad at the game, but I know how to boom heavy. But I seen players who don’t invest heavily into their economy and just end up bankrupt in the late game.

I know, making so many trade carts on an open map is often means death. But here, the gold just flowed in.

I am the player in red. Censored all the player names. How good is my economy when compared to the rest? I have the highest gold and trade.

What elo are you in 1v1? Why is your non-trade gold very low? 50 farmers is not sufficient even with khmer. I would guess 70/80 on food, 40 gold, 15 wood. So about 60 pop space for army. Also it seems like your boom wasn’t that ideal. What was your build order and show us the pop graph.

I mostly don’t play ranked. (I mostly play Europe Diplomacy scenarios, 4v4 Michi, CBA, and other scenarios.

I don’t care about build orders. I know how to fast castle if I need to. I’m not a pro. Just okay at the game. But suck on open maps. I know how to boom at least.

Been playing the game for years, but mostly on non ranked. My rating in team games sits around 1000 elo. Gold mines are nearly gone. Look at the lack of gold the others have when compared to me. The masses of gold I have from trade I could simply buy whatever resources I needed from the market. So, it worked out fine.

I lost some rating back to 950 in team games. But I got back to 1000 pretty easy by winning a series of games.

My elo In 1v1. It about 800. No longer playing 1v1. I suck in 1v1. I can’t deal with the lack of gold in 1v1 without trade.

It depends on what units are you building.
Usually you should keep, when possible, a proportion of lumberjacks/food/trade carts similar to your army composition costs.
Remember that a lumberjack can support in real life numbers something like 7-10 farmers iirc (with crop rotation and lumber upgrades), I say real life because not everyone upgrades farms in imperial age and keep building lumber camps to mantain lumberjacks efficency, then you should have some extra wood to build forward stables/workshops/wood units like rams/trebs, so better be a bit conservative.
Elephants cost 120F 70G, so realistically to keep 60 elephants you should go for (numbers a bit arbitrary) 20-25 lumberjacks 70 farmers 45-50 trade carts.
Trade carts are not as efficient as gold miners because trade route can be cloggy, not optimally distant, and so on, so even here better be conservative and add a bit more.

Then obviously the more time you can keep your army alive, the more food and gold you will spare, allowing you to replenish losses faster when they happen.

Best answer: It depends. It really does.

I would boom to about 140 pop, then delete vills if you are constantly pop capped and start piling up resources. That is a good rule of thumb to start for your elo.

The distribution about the resources really depends on your civ / army composition. There isnt a good rule of thumb. Based on your example of Persian elephants i would suggest much more trade cars and farms, so you really can go full elephant spam.

You dont need to be a pro to know build orders. Seems you are unwilling to learn.

Yeah, you have lots of gold compared to others, but mining gold is way more efficient with lesser investment. So, maybe you are starting trade in castle age and not really booming.

Ideal lategame army comp as Khmer should really be heavy scorpion and elite battle elephant. You want probably about 40 of each at least. In a 200 pop black forest game, that leaves you with 120 villager space. I personally prefer to play 1v1s, and my standard boom is up to about 100 vils, because if you rush in the right way and build the right kind of army, you can usually get away with that. Anyway, of those hundred vils, I would have 40 tradecarts, 60 on food, 20 on wood. This is assuming that all the mines are depleted. The reason for these numbers is because both battle elephants and scorpions are fairly gold intensive, so you need lots of gold for both, you need 60 farmers to supply elephants and upgrades, but if scorpions make up 50% of your army, you will have a lot less elephant casualties than otherwise, so I don’t think you need as many as some people are suggesting. You also need more on wood than is required to merely sustain the farms, because if you are also building heavy scorpions, you need the wood for that. The reason you want about 40 elephants and 40 scorpions, at least in my opinion, is because if you can build that, it is almost unstoppable. To put it into perspective, 40 Khmer heavy scorpions can shred 100 maxed out Halberdiers in less than 5 seconds, if they are bunched up right. They also have the range to counter units like monks if need be. The elephants will crush cavalry and any other threat to the scorpions. Basically, the only real ways to stop it, are to either land a onager or better type hit on the scorpions, and then swarm with Halberdiers, or to like use cav to kill the scorpions and monks convert elephants, or something like that. The two units cover each others weaknesses very well, and on a closed map like black forest, especially in a team game, that is how I would probably balance my eco for that army.

What are you talking about? He got 37307 non-trade gold, the highest out of everyone. The next closest was 31693 gold, and the closest on the enemy team was 28173.

The only stat that I agree with here is the 40 on gold, at least if they are trade carts. You should have 60 ish on food, and 20 on wood as Khmer in my opinion. That leaves 80 space for army, which allows 40 elite battle elephants, and 40 Khmer heavy scorpions. This is a much better army comp than just elephants, which your eco seems geared towards, and the eco I would use supports this a lot better.

How was it not ideal? It didn’t need to be, he still got MVP for the winning team.

MVP in a low elo game doesnt mean much, the guy is asking for help, so you need to tell him what he did wrong in order to help him, you cant help someone that is wrong without telling them they are wrong

like this is wrong…

its black forest… you boom to more than 120 pop, and then kill off vils, just like woodsier said …


well done, be careful of doing this in later games though, you dont want to buy wood, especially at those rates(200 is mind bending), because if the enemy is selling their wood (most players can sell wood in blackforest since it is endless) you are basically giving them good sell rates and thus keeping THEIR gold eco alive… as an example most post imperial games its a race to sell off the most wood before the market bottoms out and you get roughly 14 g per 100 w… you’re basically feeding the opponent an extra 94 g per sale!

your trade carts are good, but as mentioned above, make sure you arent over committing to them too early, as it means your eco is suffering in the mean time while you are spending wood (and more importantly gold) to get 35 carts when you could be mining gold much faster…

dont be afraid of training too many vils and then killing them off later for more pop space

at least yor idle vils was good :slight_smile:

I know, I have my own post suggestion already.

Sure, but eventually by the lategame you want to move towards this, at least for Khmer.

No, he got 37307- 25294 non-trade gold. Which makes me assume he started trading in Feudal or Castle age instead of booming

Thats only enough to sustain Cavalier/Pala production. Not even close to sustaining Eles. Also, this is team game, so he doesnt he need to tech into scorps in most cases.

Ok nvrm, I forgot about that for some reason. Maybe cause I only play 1v1s so I forgot trade counts towards the total.

What, would you just do elephants? They won’t do very well against halbs or monks. Khmer should ideally always have 40ish heavy scorpions if you can get it. If you don’t take losses, you don’t need to be able to sustain production as much as otherwise.

In a TG u can add in rams and trebs, but i feel like it is not necessary to tech in scrops if u a re going full eles. 60 eles constant production with a 140 eco should be good enf as long as ur teammate helps out. Ideally your teammate will be making some ranged units or infantry/siege. Of course, it depends on elo too. Maybe at lower elo there isnt much communication and it is more of separate 1v1s.

It depends really I guess on the situation. Maybe if the original post wanted really good feedback, sharing the actual replay would help, although based on the censoring of the player names, that might be unlikely.

I did manage to find the game and watched a bit of it. It was typical low elo feudal trade boom. Thou he did a good job recovering from 5 sheep killed by enemy sc. Mill and mining camp placement were bad, so were the placement of markets. Lots of simple things to improve, but OP thinks BOs are for pros. So guess he is happy where he is.

Lol. It’s fine then with any of the improvement any of us have suggested then I guess. It doesn’t really matter what he does, any of it will help him improve. Also, did it look like he had practiced the Art of War?

No, they also said they dont like doing BOs.