Leitis change?

So. I’ ve been thinking about the leitis dilema, and I came to the conclusion that the problem is that the unit overlaps with paladin, and thus, depending of its balance, its either op or kinda useless. So I though about a possible change is to make it an option when knight line it’s not.

I though about something like giving it back the +1 PA it was took away from it, and maybe giving +1 attack to the non elite and the elite version, but take away the effect from the relics (and also, make it more gold intensive, like 70G). That way, if you’re playing lithuanians and you manage to get 2 or more relics, knight line will be the option to go, but if you’re out of relics, Leitis will be your way to go.

Opinions ?

except it wouldn’t work. especially by making it 70 gold. it didn’t even see much use in castle age at 50 gold and 2 pierce armor because it requires a castle to build, so why would it see use at 70 gold?
especially after nerfing it by removing relics?

when is it useless? it might not be the best, but its low cost always makes it useful, i mean heck even in imperial if things turn out one way you can always supplement hussars with leitis

80% of the forum was demanding the Leitis nerf and was done.
70G is absurd.
And removing the relic bonus to them is a huge overnerf, not to mention that it creates a thematic disruption of the bonus (is like removing the effect of Stirrups to Konniks).

Also i like that all of The Last Khans Unique units have a civ bonus or unique technology affecting them

Well situations where you don’t have the relics often are the same situation you’re in trouble and not ready to have a castle either so meh. FC UU strats are used with ranged UUs so this isn’t too much of an option either. If it gets reworked I think keeping the lower cost and the lower upgrade cost would be key to help it remain different from the knight line.

As if it useless rn I don’t think so. It is underused, but it’s maybe people overreacting to the nerf. At least it does what it’s supposed to do (ie.owning armoured units) well, and better so than the Lith paladin so it’s fine (doesn’t mean a rework should never happen ofc)

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Against archer civs its laughable at best.

The Leitis is still good against archers, maybe not the best. Compare the Leitis to a Jaguar Warrior. They have the same armor, but the Leitis has 2x the HP and faster movement. It costs less than half the double gold (50 < 2×30) what Jaguars cost. So it can still deal with archers in modest numbers. Another solid unit to compare is the Berserk, with its solid attack and general use.

Usually this topic is quite common. If the UU is stronger than the generic unit (in this case Leitis and Knights), what should be the cost. If it is weaker, then it will be useless. Finding the required balance is hard.

Though I agree giving it +1 armor and changing its cost to 70F 60G, same as original in total resources.

Your comparing cavalry to infantry. Its an apples to oranges comparison. The leitis has the same survival against archers that the cataphract does. The only cavalry worse against archers that costs gold is the steppe lancer.

Um what? Jags cost 30 gold and leitis 50g.

To put some hard numbers, I compared the Leitis to a pretty solid unit Jaguar Warrior, which possesses all properties of generic infantry except for its anti-infantry damage.

Forgot a word. Let me correct.

The Leitis basically drops its anti-archer role and functions as a population efficient Berserk. Twice the gold cost is bought at twice the health.

With all upgrades, 1 ELeitis can draq fighting with 2 EBerserks in succession (not together).

Except again you compare cavalry to cavalry. Not to infantry. Obviously cavalry is going to be hetter against archers then infantry is. Still doesn’t make the leitis good against archers.

I personally am not a fan of the ignore armor mechanics of the leitis, as it does not fit with the rest of the game. Moreover it feels it’s there to screw two units which are already niche, the teutonic knights and the boyars. On most units the ignore armor feature corresponds to 3-5 extra damage, which made me think: what if we scrap the ignore armor thing and have the leitis (but not knight line) gain +2 attack for every relic instead of +1? I think this would fit lithuanians way better.

I have actually seen decent results with Woad Raiders against archers. Leitis and Woads have the same armor and without Husbandry, similar speed (the Leitis is only slightly faster).

Thats not common though and usually woads pull it off by overwhelming numbers.