Let's improve "Nomads" tech for Mongols

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
41

Another “problem” with nomads is it doesn’t make sense “in world”. The mongols, the OG steppe civ, lived in yurts in mongolia for generations, then banded together and conquered the world and probably became more settled down than they’d ever been. You can’t conquer if you don’t settle down and occupy. Otherwise you’re just raiders. Admittedly you can have some feudal arrangement, ###### states, tribute and whatnot but still.

Presumably then the logic is that somewhere in the middle of the Mongols reaching the height of their power they had to learn how to be nomadic? Maybe their is a civ out there this could be a good identity fit for, but not the mongols IMO. If it was a bonus it’d be fine. but a UT it makes no sense.

3 Likes
43

One interesting fact that other 2 SL civs have a Castle Age UT that benefits their CA, LC and SL. Maybe Mongols can have a consistent UT. But Mongols don’t need any buff. So I’m thinking about very small regeneration. CA (not Mangudai), LC and SL regenerates 10 HP/min.

44

Golden Horde (300 food, 150 gold): Light Cavalry, Steppe Lancers, and Cavalry Archer +2 melee armor

Not super creative, and pretty derivative of the Tatars (but that makes sense, considering their connection). However, it partially makes up for the lack of the final armor upgrades, but the units are still missing extra pierce armor, so they still have that weakness.

45

I don’t know much but here is my 2 cents:

Nomad is occur from area empty of resource and need to move for more prosper land, so:

  1. Eco building deletion return resource equal to it cost*hp percentage
  • Pro: easy to impliment
  • Con: May use return resource for military instead (wood for military building, siege or archer); no way to know and prepare counter
  1. Eco building deletion create ox cart that could build that resource building by itself (speed up with villager)
  • Pro: Will only stay in eco and not much support to military
  • Con: harder to impliment and may hard to identify which ox cart is for which resource
  1. Unlock ox cart unit which could built ger like in AOE4 (make this building weak) or AOM ox cart
  • Pro: Easy to impliment and still able for counter play
  • Con: maybe too powerful eco that push W/R up
2 Likes
46

Permanent stat buff will be OP. On top of that you’re buffing MA when Mongols LC and SL are already better at melee.

47

Well, I didn’t say it was a particularly good idea…

1 Like
48

LC,SL, and/or CA/mangudai atk bonus vs gates, walls, vills, and/or trade units.

that should help the mongols continue to harass eco throughout the mid-game but does basically nothing to buff their late game death ball against their opponents late game death ball.

49

way too much changes voiced here. mongol is an AOK civ and should be left as is, at most maybe add what the other person suggested, that castle/tc maybe dont lose pop once destroyed.

1 Like
50

All ranged units (Excluding siege and ship) attack bonus vs building have been removed. This is considered a bad design by a big base of players and devs agreed. I’m open for 1 or 2 exceptions however Mongols with their faster firing CA/Mangudai, should definitely not be the one.

1 Like
51

Besides obsidian arrows I’m not familiar with any archer vs building bonus damage being removed. Admittedly my off the top of my head history of aoe2 changes isn’t encyclopedic.

I agree in general that obsidian arrows and similar is probably not good game design. mayan arbs could shred through buildings.

Just to be clear those were two and/or lists. not saying that all of LC, SL, and CA/Mangudai should get bonuses against all of gates, walls, vills, and trade. But somewhere amongst those numerous combinations, I believe a good bonus to be.

Basically the idea is to help the mongols harass and opponent eco in castle age, and to do that you need to get into a base (through walls and/or gates) and kills eco units (vills and/or trade carts). The units that are consistent with the mongol identity are LC, SL, and CA (regular or mangudai doesn’t matter to me).

Also I didn’t say it in the previous post but I think “gates and walls” would be just the palisade gates and palisade walls. SLs are only serious threat to palisades cause they can get 6-10 units attacking the same wall. Even then it takes a couple hits to take down palisade walls, though still considerably faster than knights. A stone wall has 7x the HP AND better armor even before it’s upgraded to fortified wall. No bonus that is even semi-non-ridiculous is really going to help in that situation. If you went with CA then yeah the bonus could be less but you’d be in the territory of obsidian arrows. I don’t think there’d be any point of adding any bonus damage to stone walls. Maybe stone gates. You could get enough melee units attacking to make a difference. IDK, probably not, but possibly.

So yeah, I definitely wasn’t suggesting we give mangudai obsidian arrows or anything like that.

Possibly the most interesting combination (actually multiple distinct combinations) would be to give each of SL, LC, and CA an atk bonus against a different group. SL atk bonus vs palisade gates and walls, and vills and trade carts in my head could go either way with CA and LC. So no one unit is buffed a lot, but collectively it gives mongols a gameplan in castle age.

And if the opponent decides, I don’t want to mess with the mongol player raiding me, I’m going to put up stone walls or a ton of houses and “force” them to use siege, then that opponent is out the resources and vill building time when in another circumstance they may have opted to just stick with their current defenses. So the mongol player is still advantaged.

Admittedly this tech probably wouldn’t be so great on a closed map, but raiding in general isn’t as good on a closed map.

52

Arambai - Manipur Cavalry.

I’m okay with SL and LC. But CA and Mangudai attacking faster with this bonus will be OP imho.

53

I would love this change. If we have ############# Changing Docks into Harbors, then we can have this too.

55

Something something
Steppe lancers heal slowly over time, 400f, 300g

or…

Huihui Pao
Trebuchets gain +4 armor and +50% HP, 500w 600g

56

I like how it’s another siege tech, and realistically I don’t think it’s a big buff which is good.

yeah if you want every last stat buff you’ll pick it up, but most time it’s probably not worth it.

But still infinitely better than nomads.

57

I’m personally still of the opinion AoK civs shouldn’t be untouchable

2 Likes
58

The Nomads tech was introduced in late 2013, over 14 years after AoK.

4 Likes
59

Let the tech to pack and unpack town center in 20-30s.

1 Like
60

But what would be the really use of this in a game? Beyond SP or campaings.

61

Train the packed TC wagons and unpack them to build. This way Villagers don’t have to stop gathering resources to build TCs.
A viable design whether or not TCs are allowed to be packed to the wagons.