Let's speak about aztec promotion. Who, when and how much

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
1

As you should to know, aztecs in treaty are weak. Not unplayable weak, but still weak. I know, however, aztecs, for historical reasons, should not be comparable to european firepower, especially in Imperial Age. Also, for historical reasons, aztec warriors were motivated to bring their enemies alive, not dead. Motivated, how? Even a peasant could become a noble, if they capture enough enemies.
Such mechanic may be very hard to implement, so, a quicker solution should be implement aztec promotions, which would sinergize with healing dance.
All aztec units deserve this? I think so, but we should debate

Macehualtin/Otontin slinger:
Skill Promotion: Extra range and faster attack speed.

Coyote Runner:
Scout Promotion : Extra range and movement speed.

Puma Lancer
Attack Promotion : Extra attack.

Arrow Knight:
Maybe they don’t need that. But, Agility Promotion : Extra movement speed.

Eagle Runner Knight:
Skill Promotion : Extra range and faster attack speed

Jaguar Knight:
Naval Promotion : (just kidding)
Combat Promotion : Extra hit points and extra attack.

Skull Knight:
Agility Promotion: Extra movement speed.

War Chief
Attack Promotion : Extra attack.

Activate this promotions by default may be very dangerous, I think it should serve for treaty, so, a Big Button, a Card, something. I don’t know. But we should debate.

1 Like
2

the JPK are the ones I would improve and maybe the otontin. They are the only units of the Aztecs against heavy infantry and the JPK takes a long time to create and they die quickly, the otontin are relatively weak although they fulfill their function.

ERKs are no longer a good option in treaty due to their cost and creation time; it is more profitable to use pumas and keep the war ceremony active longer. But due to the complaints about this unit it is better to forget about it in treaty.

3

It wont change anything. Units on treaty are easily killed, specially aztecs that have to fight canons and musketeers.

They need a new unique bonus as all they had was taken by other civs:

  • Heavy lategame food eco: other natives do better thanks to fur trade like cards.

  • Plaza: Everyone get stronger than vills no pop dancers. Also WP card is a meme, just 2 more villagers after training all 10 priests.

  • Age IV crates come slower than other civs ones.

  • Their boom is weaker than ever since training WP and villagers last longer.

  • They cant get every ““arsenal”” upgrade cause there arent enough slots on age III. Neither on deck for any other cards. Too much must to have ones. They need techs.

4

Such mechanic have in the China explorer, transformation of one unit into another

5

hot take: don’t use this as justification in a game where guns counter other guns.

aztec is already one of the hardest civs to play well. This would also result in even more aztec unit nerfs the next patch because people love to cry when they lose to azzy. It would also make the civ even more complex to play. units with 80 hp don’t need promotions, they’ll never get any value out of that.

these two never go together. free for all yes, team games maybe. tr40, absolutely never gonna happen. you’re using training speed or dmg ceremonies 100% of the time after treaty ends.

My honest opinion is that some of the big buttons should add useful techs to cut back some of the hc cards. But every single patch brings another aztec nerf instead.

2 Likes
6

Not only in treaty, Aztec is already unplayable in team game that much worse than treaty if you think Aztec in treaty is only weak.
It was destroyed by crazy balance patches, it would be easier and better completely remake this civ.

*If people here really want a balance game.

2 Likes
7

Not the transformation, I mean, the capture.

8

I think we are restricted with full remakes, because this game is already a remake, we must remain alike the 2005 game.

9

Go back is not a good choice for a balance, it seems stupid to have made dozens balance patch mistakes.

Moreover people remain playing the game and talking balance obviously weak at defending rush, Aztec go back TWC or TAD stage will be just getting complaint and nerfed again and again.

10

Aztecs are a top tier civ. Don’t really understand what the angst is about.

11

Capture also would in the Nature Friendship ability, just make it passive

12

They got a big nerf and become a top tier civ?
Because of winrate?
They were top tier before?
Nerfing a civ is making them stronger?
Aztec winrate is a strong slap in the face to people who are using winrate to balance civs.
Now Aztec doesn’t have good eco, doesn’t have unit above average quality, no musk and artillery, any element that can make a civ OP Aztec doesn’t have. Fast age up? Haud and Lakota also have, better choices with resources.

AOE3DE balance is amazing can reverse the common sense.

This is what I said 3 months ago. Applicable for bottom civs.

3 Likes
13

Well, I decided to try in a mod those changes:
Otontin (macehualtin): ROF and Damage promotion. Damage is almost useless, the base damage is very low. ROF, however, give Otontins and very interesting effect: it desynchs their attacks, when they are in a large group: what does this mean? It means the wasted shots are reduced. They, as a group, will perform better. They are still fragile, though. Any good replacement for Damage Promotion? Speed is not considered, because I think they are planned to be massed.

WarChief: I think this change is excessive. Fun, but very easy to obtain and absolutely permanent. Promotions make this unit stronger in the early stages, may cause an imbalance. Maybe the War Chief just need a small attack increase.

Jaguar Knight: ROF is very beneficial to this unit. Albeit I tried Damage bonus, is almost useless, as in Otontin try. Speed would be ideal, in this case. I’m gonna try later.

Skull Knight: With Max HP Promotion, and Damage Promotion, i think it maximize their function: a slow very lethal unit hard to obtain, very rewardable if used correctly. Also, It makes the unit synergize much better with the unique dance of the Aztecs. the healing dance.

Arrow Knight received in this iteration ROF decrease and Range increase. The effect is similar, and even best than in the otontins. Does not make the unit an Artillery Terminator, but augments their efficiency in a great way, without making the unit invincible. Let’s think it passes the micro to the unit itselves, because they will get better formations and redistribute their attacks better.

Deliberately I did not try in Coyotes, Puma and Eagles (nor Warrior Priests). Coyotes and Puma are meant to die in battlefield. Maybe speed and HP, but I’m not sure. Eagles with ROF and Range, maybe, or Attack and Range, to have variation. Puma, Damage, maybe.

Conclussions: ROF promotions for Otontins, Arrow (and maybe Eagles) make the units awesome without make them gamebreaking. Its like make the micro stronger. Is a simple change, but may give breath to a civ very abandoned and nerfed when the players cannot see why.

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	 </Effects>
14

I think that the JPKs should stop being heavy infantry to become just infantry or light infantry and acquire a 0.5 bonus against heavy cavalry. It would be like a kind of mele skirmishers.

1 Like
15

I would have liked the devs to revisit or reconsider the mods made to the JPK, the promotions for the Otontin slinger and the Arrow Knight.

1 Like
16

Aztecs is now a very extreme civilization in the game. In the ordinary mode, they say that “an extreme wave of attack is carried out through a large number of troops in the card. If they defeat the opponent, they win, and if they fail to defeat the opponent, they will be out immediately”. They have almost become the mouthpiece of a wave of tactics. In the team mode, without team-mates to cooperate with them, their extreme attack is almost a non playable civilization, The treaty only relied on a wave of large-scale troops to achieve victory, otherwise it would almost certainly fail. This is clearly an unhealthy state

I tried to use Aztecs in the group war a few weeks ago. They can only take effect when your teammates actively cooperate with your offensive actions. It is difficult for a country to defeat a player in the group war mode when it attacks alone. Once your teammates do not cooperate with your actions, making the war enter the late stage, Aztecs is not able to participate in winning the Attrition warfare with other countries, but it will drag your teammates down, Becoming an awkward burden, and often in team mode, you can hardly expect teammates to actively cooperate with you

In the 2v2 team confrontation, Aztecs is still a normal country. Once entering the 3v3 or 4v4 team confrontation, and the war situation has entered the industrial era to the imperial era, Aztecs is almost certainly a burden on a team. I used Aztecs to win only one set in a 3v3 match in seven sets, while when I used other countries in common use to play 3v3 matches, I usually got half the victory rate

This may be my opinion because I’m not good enough, but Aztecs’s dependence on cards is too serious. Almost all their tactics are card firing, pressing and twisting to gather a wave of forces to fight a decisive battle. Once the concentrated forces fail to win and are forced to enter the war of attrition, their follow-up will be extremely weak, and their economy will be difficult to support the follow-up forces, The slow training speed of the noble cabin troops also makes it difficult for them to replenish ERK and AK troops in a timely manner, which will only further increase their losses

3 Likes
17

Problem of Aztec in team game is not only team mates need to cooperate with Aztec, is Aztec only has ERK can be used in team but eco is poor, and ERK was deeply nerfed. ALL OTHER UNITS from Aztec in team are joke.

Balance team don’t play Aztec in team, (may be treaty too) so we can’t expect any.
Before they nerfed ERK we already complained, next they are going to nerf AK and coyote runner too, what should we say.

1 Like
18

I’d like the Skull Knights to be replaced with Shorn Ones (highest tier of warrior noble) and for them to be available as Noble Hut unit (maybe as their slowest to train unit there).

Garland War Ceremony would have to find a role, however when you step back, it’s seems odd that their heavy hitter is effectively locked out until you want to switch ceremony (from a ceremony that help you overal and grealy).

As for the Skull Knight, give his look to the War Chief - Skull Knights, or rather Tlacochcalcatl, were effectively Generals of the armies so look out of place as groups of them anyway.

These Shorn Ones could also get a passive aura via shipment which could effect all other Noble (knight, urghh) units by way of boosting their melee combat in some minor way. These guys would (after the peons with the bows and slings skirmishing) be first, leading the charge into the chaos and would be a big moral boost to fellow noble warriors.

1 Like