There is a lot of controversy currently in the community about this strategy, some consider it not very powerful, while others consider it an abusive and worthy of nerf strategy.
Honestly, I have faced it several times already and it is the most powerful rush that I had to really face, it is not invincible but it is really powerful in the early game. I have seen a boy with a low rating (approx 1100) beat a colleague with a much higher rating (1500) in a very easy way. Equally, I would like to hear your opinions on this matter. I consider very seriously, that it was due to the old logistician, where the resources had to be collected with villagers, instead of being deposited automatically. I already know Spain is somewhat weak and that a powerful strategy does not hurt, but it must be admitted that it is very abusive, like the native Inca rush at the past time.
Before the new Logistician, Spain was a FF civ, and Logistician delays FF by a lot.
It was better to just Age Up with the 500 Food, so much so that it was Meta.
Before he made all your Age 1 crates drop into the resource pool, the Spanish Logistician was actually one of the worst in the game, as it slowed you down considerable towards Age 2, and Spain would just be rushed to death by British or Swedes.
The new Logistician actually makes Spain versatile.
In my humble opinion, it makes the first-age shipments really very powerful for only 100 food. I think it deserves some balance. Perhaps to make the shipments more expensive when using that policy, as it happens to Germany with the uhlans.
So i was tinkering with the new logistician, and in team spanish games is compeletely broken.
If you send a team card in age I and both spanish player age up with the logistician they both get extra ressources.
This obviously scales at ridiculous levels in 3vs3 or 4v4 with all spanish players on the team.
My only suggestion in nerfing the spanish logistician is to take the team bonus exploit (the rest can be fine)
Actually 200 gold and a tower is meta for Spanish ff, tower makes you more resilient to age 2 pressure, 200 gold means you only have to mine 100 gold manually, also I still feel that FF should be the most powerful strategy with Spain, while logistician remains a build for only matchups that force you into age 2 play, ( Brit India etc ) Spain at heart is an FF civ, and they should stay one while still letting the logistician be viable, but not more used than FF
Having a strat with the Logistician doesnt mean is broken, you just need to know how to counter it and that’s all, the same way with the cowboy rush from US, the Agra fort of India, the Port water boom, the Lakota rush etc etc
Stop saying the logistician is op only because u dont know how to play against it. The spanish are now usable in competitive so stop crying because there are more op strats with other civs. Just learn how to play
What a nice way to balance the game, everyone just need to learn how to play, didn’t thought that before :)!
Jokes aside, idk if it’s a bug or what that thing about all the Spain in same team sharing resources with team cards, but It should be removed because that’s just too strong.
Spain feels nice in team with this new logistician, they could reduce a little bit the extra resources that it gives, because I feel like they’re too much for early game(lets say first 7-8 minutes, after that spain just becomes like brith/france so it’s ok).
Well, actually I just said it’s a very powerful rush, and in teams it’s really abusive. There are several videos, recs and captures that demonstrate my point (almost all this material taken from high-level games), if you know how to stop Spain or keep up with logista, well, we are all ears.
On the other hand, it does not seem right to me that a civilization that was always weak, is given a too powerful build order, not because I want this civilization to remain weak, but because the game remains unbalanced …
The same thing happened a long time ago with the Spanish FI and that is why it was nerfed.
Britons house boom is not strong right??? and what about Agra fort rush, cowboi rush, Port water boom,… yes you dont talk about that because nerfing a new thing is easier LOL
This does not matter for Spain, because Spain have one of the strongest if not the strongest age 1 on the game thanks to the extra unit that are good against guardians, so they almost always get either food treasures or livestock. That’s why the 15 villagers age up is much more common then the 16 one. All that the Spanish Logistician does is makes you age with 16 villagers (That you would do anyway if don’t get food treasure/livestocks) and even if don’t get treasures/livestock, it’s delays your age up for about 20/30 seconds that will recovered with the immediately double barracks that you will drop. (And the barracks are literally immediately placed out because you don’t have to gatherer the resources)
I don’t think that having a extra option for the civilization is broken, I think that specifically the Spanish Logistician build is broken because gives the Spanish player the upper hand in literal every game, and he can keep the upper hand if he want, differently from rushes of India, Lakota and Renegado/Comanchero build.
Look. I literally just made a post about people being toxic and rude with others on the forum, and this might sounds like I’m being rude, but I really need to ask you this:
Did you ever actually played the United States? You say things that is so out of touch with the reality of the civilization that is hard to me to believe that you actually play they.
How the Renegado/Comanchero rush even compares to the Spanish Logistician? It’s slower, involves less units and you cannot keep the upper hand for 20 minutes if you want.
And by low level people you also include Haitch and SoldieR?
Spain was always usable in competitive play. If you see the tournaments, players used Spain constantly even years before the DE.
Also, please break down for me how do you counter it?
None of those builds are nowhere near as strong as the Spanish Logistician.
May I show you a video from Aussie drongo where SoldieR (A top 10 player on the ladder today, bear this in mind) try to manor boom against Spanish Logistician?
Is Spain really a FF civ?
They don’t have the fast age up, so by default they are semi FF at best.
Also, they have the best age 1 and probably the 2nd best age 2 (after Sweden). Staying in age2 isn’t a problem for Spain. They have a good roster of units and they have unction. This allows them to easily keep up with the best age 3 civs.
They are an ff civ because if they decide to stay age 2, not having exiled prince means they are fully committed, also getting shipments in faster has synergy with being in the higher ages because naturally the higher the age you are the better the shipments you can get, also I would definitely consider hitting age 3 prior to 8 minutes without making any troops until transition an ff and that’s exactly how Spain was played, so yes it’s an ff civ, ottoman ff typically doesn’t use exiled prince ( they use the 4 Huss or 4 abus age up), Chinese don’t have exiled prince, and yet they are considered ff, the logistician broke everything, the devs idea was to make spain have an age 2 option, and what they did was completely brake the Spanish meta by making all in double rax the meta.
Again, if you know how to beat in 2vs2, 3vs3 or 4vs4 the spanish logistician team, please be my guest.
I am actually challenging you or anybody else who says its “fine”, or “just another strat” to just play against my team (or anybody elses) and show a record game that shows how to defeat it. (2vs2 is possible, but 3vs3 or 4vs4 is simply impossible)
If you take the team bonus resources, i think its managable (albeit still OP), but as it stands… its really really really broken.
