Looking at Franks tech tree

I noticed that they are missing Redemption and Atonement. This got me thinking.

Atonement is whatever but why do Franks have Block Printing while missing Redemption?

Block Printing is used for ONE thing in the game, convert Bombard Cannons. If you don’t have Redemption, there is no point in having Block Printing, either. Nobody is gonna do Monks to convert mass Paladins from 12 range anyway.

Maybe Block Printing could be a child tech to Redemption, same way how Paladin requires you to research Cavalier first.

Chinese got this same tech tree in De, after 20 years of game release to make them slightly more “historically accurate” and to slightly “nerf” them.

Mayans also have this tech tree. The only usage I can think of is to protect your ram your ram is attacking a castle in early imp. just like people use Monk + Ram elephant on Hindustanis in Castle age.

i dont see why this is relevant? are you saying monks need to be nerfed even more? because currently you can queue or tech red and Block simultaneously?

it sounds like change for the sake of needing to change something, not to actually improve anything?

and lastly, franks have theocracy, making BP monks more viable for players that do actually want to use groups of monks to convert units (aka elephants) i know we hardly see them nowadays, but eles do exist, and monks are meant to counter them, the better the monk, the more viable, so yeah removing BP makes no sense on any level


Is the argument here, that block printing is useless unless you have redemption, because the only need more than 9 range to convert siege? If so, I would disagree. Block printing can still be usefull. The further your monks are away the safer they are. With block printing they at outrange all the archer units by a greater margin, so its a bit harder to snipe them. I’m totally fine with some civs only having one of the techs in question, some having both and some having none.


Monks are used for 1 thing in Imperial, convert BBCs. They are too weak of a unit otherwise to use vs the stronger and numerous Imperial armies.

Unless it’s something gimmicky like Bohemians trash Monks, Monks are simply too expensive for the value you can get out of them in Imperial, micro or no micro.

If you think so, just don’t research Block printing, no need to take away the tech for those that sometimes make use out of it.


+3 range is useful even against non-siege. Starting conversions earlier could swing Paladin vs Paladin or Paladin vs Camels battles in your favor. It probably might not be too valuable but its not bad either.

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I’m kind of surprised that the Franks have Architecture + Hoardings with their 25% cheaper Castes, when Both the Inca (15% cheaper Stone buildings) and Slavs (40% of Stone is converted to Wood) don’t have Architecture.


But franks lack bracer, while Incas don’t.

What a deep thinking, amazing! Let’s give Franks redemption because Franks need more buffs.

I think the idea was morre “lets remove block printing from Franks, because they dont use it anyways”.

For me the post says:
1- “lets remove block printing to all civs without redemption (britons, chinese, franks, koreans, magyars, mayans, persians, tatars, vietnamese, and vikings)
2- and force civs to research redemption before being allowed to research block printing”.

I am against the idea of child techs in monastery. If people want to use “suboptimal techs/strategies”, I dont see any problem with that.