Looking for some advice English -> French Knights late game

Hi all.

I am looking for some advice. The situation I seem to run into a lot, is late game, the french player has very very upgraded french knights, and mangonels.

That combination I cannot seem to beat as English.

I build a TON of heavy man at arms, spearman, springalds to try to get the mangonels out of the way but because of the speed of the horseman I have no chance to position to take out his siege. His siege inevitably nail my troops on foot, who are not able to move fast enough against the horses to kite, and its GG.

  • I can’t reposition due to speed of horses
  • I can’t hit the siege as they are too far away from my springalds, and the heavy horses are charging at my siege

How do people tackle this? What unit combinations am I looking to use here?

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Spear + crossbow, mix with a few springlads, but a lot of scouts to deal with mangonels.

+2 armor doesn’t make English MaA good against knights, its just makes them better against things that they are already good at.


Hi @shadowneal128 - thank you i’ll try crossbows and spears.

What do you mean by English MaA?

English have stronger than normal MAA, they’re very effective for soaking up damage

What he said.
Also what’s very important is that you are not looking to fight knights in general, you want to fight his base and threaten his resources.
Secure your base and add a few siege and slow crawl with keeps and towers toards his base. You can force a lot o bad engagements for him if he doesn’t know what he is doing.


Can somebody explain to me what MAA means?

Men at arms

The English have a unique upgrade for them

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in fact its BG because they always win with that combination… i have tried everything too haha

Men at arms.

French’s knight+siege is gold intensive, this combo is not. the main strategy is to pressure his gold income and get favorable trade of units.

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If you pushed earlier and failed its going to be much harder. If you commit early it can hurt your late game. You can take game late and don’t make archers. You need to counter him. Make springals and guard with spears + crossbows and you can almost take out all of his army. Knights are very expensive units so even if you lose a lot you can easily make those units again but for french player its huge investment. If you have 4+ springals you already have siege superiority. You will have to take him out quickly before he switches to other composition. It takes time but higher elo it will happen.

There will be one issue. If opponent has reached imperial age with Red Keep in his base you will need to make trebs. Seriously don’t make mistake of pushing it with infantry or even knights especially when 15 units are garrisoned. Its only true defensive landmark. Its range can reach bombard. 3 Trebs can easily take it out even even when being repaired (opponent will quickly run out of wood. It takes a lot of wood to repair).

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The issue is that the French eco bonus, thx to villager production, is superior to english

And they get knights earlier, which provide map control

This means they get to fast castle with knights online already, and then just rush for mangonel

Yeah, you can rush for springald, you’re going to be behind all game

It’s a tempo issue and english is one of the worst civs right now

I don’t play English, but I’ve had success sending a suicidal regiment of spears after knights like a heat seeking missile whenever the knights try some funny business, yes the spears die, but not before I can do some damage to siege, gates, castles, landmarks, or position myself better. Cheap spears dying for glory. Just need more barracks up by your front lines to keep this strategy going.
Edit: you can dodge a few mangonel shots if you need to keep chasing or maybe close in on the mangoes and take one out, again, these are (buy some time) troops not looking for a decisive victory


Thank you all for your help and support - getting on better now because of it !

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How good are scouts vs. siege? I never thought to use them as a counter to siege, as I never thought scouts would be tanky enough.