Make AoE4 a competitive game!

I’m hoping for both parts…

I hope they create an initiative single player experience coupled with a great multiplayer experience so players can have the best of both worlds. I know many players want something competitive (maybe similar to Starcraft 2?)… but I personally like the non-competitive aspect of the game.

I don’t mind playing a competitive game here and there, but for the most part my time is spent enjoying the most out of Multiplayer. I also hope they introduce No Rush aspects to the MP world.

@AgeofEmpires4HQ said:
I’m hoping for both parts…

I hope they create an initiative single player experience coupled with a great multiplayer experience so players can have the best of both worlds. I know many players want something competitive (maybe similar to Starcraft 2?)… but I personally like the non-competitive aspect of the game.

I don’t mind playing a competitive game here and there, but for the most part my time is spent enjoying the most out of Multiplayer. I also hope they introduce No Rush aspects to the MP world.

The No Rush was very much appreciated in AoE3, especially the treaty 40 minutes. Of course, most people played Rush, but the treaties also contributed to making the AoE3 epic!

@CostlierParrot3 said:

@AgeofEmpires4HQ said:
I’m hoping for both parts…

I hope they create an initiative single player experience coupled with a great multiplayer experience so players can have the best of both worlds. I know many players want something competitive (maybe similar to Starcraft 2?)… but I personally like the non-competitive aspect of the game.

I don’t mind playing a competitive game here and there, but for the most part my time is spent enjoying the most out of Multiplayer. I also hope they introduce No Rush aspects to the MP world.

The No Rush was very much appreciated in AoE3, especially the treaty 40 minutes. Of course, most people played Rush, but the treaties also contributed to making the AoE3 epic!

Yes I agree… the treaty options were very fun… People could focus on base building and exploring more of the game… giving everybody a chance to win… plus the battles were more epic.

I played AOEO competitively and was deeply saddened by its closing. my brother and i LOVE competitive games and adding a ranked mode which puts you against people your level would increase the life expectancy of the game tenfold. I +1<3 this!

@Mehkind said:

@CostlierParrot3 said:

@Mehkind said:

@CostlierParrot3 said:

@Mehkind said:

@IamDalv said:
AOE2 is both casual and competitive. It’s the “easy to learn, hard to master type”, so you can actually have both, but it’s very difficult to create it that way, I don’t think even the guys at Ensemble wanted to create it like that specifically, they just got really lucky, they hit just the right spot in balancing and gameplay.

Yep, the game’s designer in 2013 (forgot the year) GDC said multiplayer was an after thought. They did same thing in AOE wheras in AOE 2 more features being added and refined. They wanted a stronger campaign and skirmish mode then a multiplayer portion so friends can play each other. He explained that game felt balanced in a multiplayer mode because they took a reverse approach. That is not to balance the units from a multiplayer point of view but a extremely harder AI vs a human player view i.e. skirmish.

it has been good to have introduced the multyplayer in age of empires 2. Remember that playing games at a time was not as easy as today! or rather, not all people were even able to do so (people in the world).
The multyplayer is a major breakthrough in any game! Measuring with real players is always different to measure with the IA. The multypalyer from longevity to the game, and it definitely makes you stronger.

I see some of your points. However a bad single player game which has a tied multiplayer won’t sell in the first place. For example, in just alone in RTS genre, many later titles in c&c, COH 2, DOW 3, later Supreme Commanders, to name a few. Whereas, even if a game doesn’t have a campaign, let alone has a good single player mode: skirmish mode, like in Ashes of Singularity, game sells. So, it is Single player > Multiplayer.

Let’s argue the longevity, there are single player only games which are still being played with an active modding community. These are old games. Icewindale, Baulders gate, Fall out new vegas, Fall out 3, Fallout 4, Skyrim, and Witcher 3(will be played), Half life 1, Half life 2, KOTR, bioshock, Deus Ex, Dishonered, Planscape torment. I hope you don’t want the whole list.

Lastly AOE 2 survived because of mods which community still shares. Major mods where some of the best ones were created by die hard fans which now called the Forgotten Empires…they saved the game after the Closure of Ensemble Studios. Age of Empires has a lot of older players and trust me, many of us never have touched the multiplayer because the scenario editor is so **** rich you can create any thing. Multiplayer was created for friends to play. Those who play in multiplayer in a competitive setting tweak a lot of setting before jumping into a match.

talking about a good single palyer mode (skirmish etc) and not having the multyplayer, there are 2 different things.
A game can have the best single palyer mode, but if it misses multylayer mode it’s like a man without a leg!
The multyplayer will surely cooperate with many friends, but many play it to be competitive and not to speak of the power of E-sport.
Have you ever tried playing multyplayers?
in AoE franchises, playing multyplayers does not mean playing with only friends you know, but above all, and even playing against you do not know! Rooms hosted by players are not all private, most of them are open to everyone, and people wants to win against those who do not know!
Watch the total war series: I can assure you that in multyplayer rooms, most games are open and not private!
The same thing I played years ago in the AoE2 and AoE3 multyplayers.
The single player is very nice, but the multyplayer is something else … you should try.

Correction: I have played multiplayer many times but I hardly ever enjoy that mode. And I respect those who play it and enjoy it.

So I am arguing for AOE being strictly a multiplayer or a title with esport features. AOE is not a competitive/esport title. It is a classic RTS and its need to remain this way. As I have said earlier, long time players won’t play a messed up game. AOE formula is unique and Relic needs to preserve that. And I frankly don’t give F about esports. And my friends who have played AOE for all this time don’t give F about esports either. You’ve got this commentators with hairstyles who don’t know a thing about gaming, sit there totally exaggerating stuff and taking over the par and trying to make as if this is the most exciting thing in this world. And what’s up with those hair styles? I don’t think any game should be made for an esport. Games should be made for people who enjoys the game and it is fun to play. Developers needs to listen long time fans of the game. Sorry if I have offended you. I don’t believe Relic can deliver can deliver both a single player and a multiplayer title today. They used to make good RTSs but they weren’t no where near AOE type. You guys want to change the formula, I am confident next AOE will be ruined.

I envy people who can have so much fun at the single player games and versus the ai. its so boring cause its far too easy. I guess its simple to please the masses with double digit iq. but for us people with some brain capacity multiplayer is actually the shit, cause human brain>>>ai. human vs human = fun.
human vs pc = boring + too easy.
also most campaigns missions are ussually pretty boring, because you either gotta abuse the buggy AI to win or its far too easy since its designed for people who dont even know what control groups or hotkeys are. they make 10 villagers to food and then stare at their screen seeing villagers carry the meat to their granary while they could do a 100 other actions in the meantime. i guess it has to be absolutely fascinating to see them carry that beef ay

@bubble, rather than hitting disagree to all of my posts (“YouTube tactic”), create a constructive criticism so every one can see and convince us why your points are valid.

Its not a YouTube tactic. Its a Reddit tactic. People think downvoting an opinion makes that opinion less true.

@TheBritish said:
Its not a YouTube tactic. Its a Reddit tactic. People think downvoting an opinion makes that opinion less true.
Thank you for correcting me. But still, try to write something after why you disagree. @bubble just hit disagree to every post.

multiplayer is where its at. single player campaigns should just be a big cool tutorial to learn how to play the game. unfortunately most of the time the campaigns too casual and kinda boring/repetitive and catered towards the casuals. so they are under the illusion that beating a moderate bot is hard. while its extremely easy. it doesn’t really help that the AI builds houses in the corner of the map or farms miles away from drop off points such as storehouses and towncenters, new players will think thats an okay way to play, while in reality its highly ineffective and a bad play. im sure that any casual player would enjoy it more if they actually knew how to properly play the game, instead of losing all the time to hard bots :sweat:
they just think its some kind of natural born talent u have to have to be good at rts games, while campaigns/computer ai gives them the illusion that they are gods(while in reality they are either abusing the AI or the ai is far too easy.) it would be cool if the campaigns were designed by competitive people so they are an actual challenge.

Yes there are some really hard campaign levels, especially in aom on titan difficulty. but those are ussually exceptions

bottom line is, the game should be made around multiplayer, with campaign being a really fun and challenging experience for both casual and a competitive player. instead of a “ill hold your hand cause you’re a fps/turn based player who never touched any hotkeys and/or doesnt know/have any multi tasking skill, and neither uses his iq to create the most effecive build orders, aka not 10 villagers to food and then 10 villagers to wood, but instead putting the villagers on the right resource for the most effective and fastest outcome, if your enemy does that as well, whether it be an ai or human player, the game becomes way more fun.”
basically give them the dark souls treatment :wink:

@bubble said:
multiplayer is where its at. single player campaigns should just be a big cool tutorial to learn how to play the game. unfortunately most of the time the campaigns too casual and kinda boring/repetitive and catered towards the casuals. so they are under the illusion that beating a moderate bot is hard. while its extremely easy. it doesn’t really help that the AI builds houses in the corner of the map or farms miles away from drop off points such as storehouses and towncenters, new players will think thats an okay way to play, while in reality its highly ineffective and a bad play. im sure that any casual player would enjoy it more if they actually knew how to properly play the game, instead of losing all the time to hard bots :sweat:
they just think its some kind of natural born talent u have to have to be good at rts games, while campaigns/computer ai gives them the illusion that they are gods(while in reality they are either abusing the AI or the ai is far too easy.) it would be cool if the campaigns were designed by competitive people so they are an actual challenge.

Yes there are some really hard campaign levels, especially in aom on titan difficulty. but those are ussually exceptions

bottom line is, the game should be made around multiplayer, with campaign being a really fun and challenging experience for both casual and a competitive player. instead of a “ill hold your hand cause you’re a fps/turn based player who never touched any hotkeys and/or doesnt know/have any multi tasking skill, and neither uses his iq to create the most effecive build orders, aka not 10 villagers to food and then 10 villagers to wood, but instead putting the villagers on the right resource for the most effective and fastest outcome, if your enemy does that as well, whether it be an ai or human player, the game becomes way more fun.”
basically give them the dark souls treatment :wink:

OH! There is a game where “single player campaigns should just be a big cool tutorial to learn how to play the game” and “made around multiplayer,” it’s called Dawn of War 3 and pretty much every rts made after 2008 with the exception of Grey Goo. Enjoy. You have clearly not played campaigns of AOE 1, old C&Cs , Homeworld, battle realms, settlers series and lots and lots of great older rts games on extreme difficulty. Things get dumbed down because of becoming more accessible. Age series was never meant for a competitive play, and I hope it doesn’t become one. Even if 4th game becomes a game some of you desire, I am glad I will have prior 3 to play. By the way, did you read all of my posts before hitting mark down? I doubt it.

@Mehkind said:

@bubble said:
multiplayer is where its at. single player campaigns should just be a big cool tutorial to learn how to play the game. unfortunately most of the time the campaigns too casual and kinda boring/repetitive and catered towards the casuals. so they are under the illusion that beating a moderate bot is hard. while its extremely easy. it doesn’t really help that the AI builds houses in the corner of the map or farms miles away from drop off points such as storehouses and towncenters, new players will think thats an okay way to play, while in reality its highly ineffective and a bad play. im sure that any casual player would enjoy it more if they actually knew how to properly play the game, instead of losing all the time to hard bots :sweat:
they just think its some kind of natural born talent u have to have to be good at rts games, while campaigns/computer ai gives them the illusion that they are gods(while in reality they are either abusing the AI or the ai is far too easy.) it would be cool if the campaigns were designed by competitive people so they are an actual challenge.

Yes there are some really hard campaign levels, especially in aom on titan difficulty. but those are ussually exceptions

bottom line is, the game should be made around multiplayer, with campaign being a really fun and challenging experience for both casual and a competitive player. instead of a “ill hold your hand cause you’re a fps/turn based player who never touched any hotkeys and/or doesnt know/have any multi tasking skill, and neither uses his iq to create the most effecive build orders, aka not 10 villagers to food and then 10 villagers to wood, but instead putting the villagers on the right resource for the most effective and fastest outcome, if your enemy does that as well, whether it be an ai or human player, the game becomes way more fun.”
basically give them the dark souls treatment :wink:

OH! There is a game where “single player campaigns should just be a big cool tutorial to learn how to play the game” and “made around multiplayer,” it’s called Dawn of War 3 and pretty much every rts made after 2008 with the exception of Grey Goo. Enjoy. You have clearly not played campaigns of AOE 1, old C&Cs , Homeworld, battle realms, settlers series and lots and lots of great older rts games on extreme difficulty. Things get dumbed down because of becoming more accessible. Age series was never meant for a competitive play, and I hope it doesn’t become one. Even if 4th game becomes a game some of you desire, I am glad I will have prior 3 to play. By the way, did you read all of my posts before hitting mark down? I doubt it.
I did and ill keep downvoting them. You do realize a game becomes more popular if the multiplayer is good. and as bonus has good single player content for u guys out there? theres a reason league, pubg is on the top charts in twitch. they get million of sales because its multiplayer. and then they cater to the casuals by adding some other cool content. i aint seeing casual/noob streamers hitting 30k viewers and promoting the game they are playing. nah they are hard stuck at negative 5 viewers. If we want aoe4 to ever be big and hit the top charts on steam, it better have a fantastic multiplayer. its what engages people to keep playing. no one is gonna play 500 games vs bots like some of these so called aoe veterans. stick to slow paced chess where u have hours to think bud.

@bubble said:

@Mehkind said:

@bubble said:
multiplayer is where its at. single player campaigns should just be a big cool tutorial to learn how to play the game. unfortunately most of the time the campaigns too casual and kinda boring/repetitive and catered towards the casuals. so they are under the illusion that beating a moderate bot is hard. while its extremely easy. it doesn’t really help that the AI builds houses in the corner of the map or farms miles away from drop off points such as storehouses and towncenters, new players will think thats an okay way to play, while in reality its highly ineffective and a bad play. im sure that any casual player would enjoy it more if they actually knew how to properly play the game, instead of losing all the time to hard bots :sweat:
they just think its some kind of natural born talent u have to have to be good at rts games, while campaigns/computer ai gives them the illusion that they are gods(while in reality they are either abusing the AI or the ai is far too easy.) it would be cool if the campaigns were designed by competitive people so they are an actual challenge.

Yes there are some really hard campaign levels, especially in aom on titan difficulty. but those are ussually exceptions

bottom line is, the game should be made around multiplayer, with campaign being a really fun and challenging experience for both casual and a competitive player. instead of a “ill hold your hand cause you’re a fps/turn based player who never touched any hotkeys and/or doesnt know/have any multi tasking skill, and neither uses his iq to create the most effecive build orders, aka not 10 villagers to food and then 10 villagers to wood, but instead putting the villagers on the right resource for the most effective and fastest outcome, if your enemy does that as well, whether it be an ai or human player, the game becomes way more fun.”
basically give them the dark souls treatment :wink:

OH! There is a game where “single player campaigns should just be a big cool tutorial to learn how to play the game” and “made around multiplayer,” it’s called Dawn of War 3 and pretty much every rts made after 2008 with the exception of Grey Goo. Enjoy. You have clearly not played campaigns of AOE 1, old C&Cs , Homeworld, battle realms, settlers series and lots and lots of great older rts games on extreme difficulty. Things get dumbed down because of becoming more accessible. Age series was never meant for a competitive play, and I hope it doesn’t become one. Even if 4th game becomes a game some of you desire, I am glad I will have prior 3 to play. By the way, did you read all of my posts before hitting mark down? I doubt it.
I did and ill keep downvoting them. You do realize a game becomes more popular if the multiplayer is good. and as bonus has good single player content for u guys out there? theres a reason league, pubg is on the top charts in twitch. they get million of sales because its multiplayer. and then they cater to the casuals by adding some other cool content. i aint seeing casual/noob streamers hitting 30k viewers and promoting the game they are playing. nah they are hard stuck at negative 5 viewers. If we want aoe4 to ever be big and hit the top charts on steam, it better have a fantastic multiplayer. its what engages people to keep playing. no one is gonna play 500 games vs bots like some of these so called aoe veterans. stick to slow paced chess where u have hours to think bud.

Right?! You are comparing the genres wrong. Talk within the boundaries of RTS genre. Becasue if you think multiplayer alone carry a game in terms of its longevity than there is a post where I have gave plenty of single player game which to this day doesn’t have a “competitive” multiplayer mode and it still has die hard fanbase. (If you want I can copy paste that post too). But please keep reading, because my point is not to fight with you but to convince you why Age being in a competitive scene is a terrible idea.

So please tell me anything other than few newer esport centric RTS from blizzard games which did see some competitive scene, tell me games which are in RTS genre only. Because money-grabbing micro transaction filled battle royal game PUBG, and uninventive same-old-map moba League survived due to their ongoing promotion deals and marketing campaigns. Its no secret that big name companies including blizzard invest in marketing so much to entice people just to watch their game. Becasue “hey, if they won’t buy our game, at least they would watch the product ads associated with our product, which is enough to recoup some money.” And if you are that blind to not see that then something wrong with you. Second, FPS and MOBAS are popular because they work in a multiplayer focused environment. They are pop corn enternaiment. Which takes 10-20 min. Whereas a slower RTS game like Age takes at least 30 min in its default setting. StarCraft 2 succeeded so much becasue it striped its original StarCraft roots and became a rush mode in steroids which is only for multiplayer scene.

Now go ahead make a historic themed, or reality based RTS game like AOE based on your liking, which is competitive solely, I promise it will be a hard sell because the game’s theme is just lets say is more toward thinking, and friendly fights than toward entrainment scenes. People rather see a game where a guy punch or gives bullet stream or cloak through walls, then a game where unit are fighting with swords, catapult, and cavalry and elephants. People rather see an amazing explosion and big banner of victory rather than castle being on fire and simple “You’re Victorious!” line on the screen. AOE multiplayer stream might be for you and me or most AOE players but our player base is just not huge and interested in it to make a 30K count stream audience. It’s a fact.

Lastly, I have repeated many times, I will type again. Ensemble guys made an effort to start a talk about history with their AOE games. They added multiplayer portion was meant for friendly matches. I still have collectors edition, and in that documentary that’s what I comprehend after watching it for 600 times. The competitive matches in AOE 2 or AOE 3 gets tweaked a lot before the match, since maps are not made for a rush mode. It is made for strategy and attack. In the end, AOE could fail if it gets to and changes its formula with todays competitive scene. Would you accept a game with countless loot boxes, dlcs and micro transaction? Example, AOE online. And if you and guys like you wants a thrilling, blood thumping entertainment, then I think you are playing and are in the wrong community, because AOE is for those want to relive their history with its campaign and stories not to jump on sofas with holding a coca cola in one hand watching guys in suit who are just there becasue they are getting paid. I hope you read this all, if not at least skim it. I might convince you, lets have a fair discussion.

Small correction. AOE Online didn’t have loot boxes, but it did have Empire Points which you could buy with real money (when AOE went F2P) and premium content was available via micro transaction and boosters packs which contained vanity items. I made a slip, sorry about that.

@Chusik said:

  • Balancing: Balanced maps and civilizations is a must. The resources on the maps have to be almost perfectly equal, to make it a competitive game, and therefore having a large playerbase.

Saying civilizations need to be perfectly balanced isn’t exactly useful feedback. Thats like saying water is wet - everyone knows that we want civs to be reasonably balanced. I’m also not entirely sure perfect balance should be the goal. The most interesting game experiences often have inequality in balance - with some civs or races being strong in one aspect or another and a different civ or race being very strong in completely different aspects.

I personally believe the best way to balance a game is to make the skill ceiling for that game functionally infinite, in that there is not point where being able to pull off more actions offers a diminishing return. It allows players to specialise in certain styles, and even if there is a balance difference between two races and player with better execution can over come it using mechanical skill and decision making.

The starting resources on the maps should be perfectly equal in the sense that each player has a minimum amount of resources within a certain distance of their town center, but AOE is not starcraft - the game has a lineage of some random elements and I think that the position and distance of those resources should be somewhat randomized. Perhaps your gold resource spawns 8 tiles away towards your opponent meaning you’re easier to raid whereas your opponents gold pile spawned behind their base 10 tiles away. These small fluctuations in the set up of the game board offer players the ability to distinguish themselves by read the state of the game and making decisions about how to approach a given situation. If all resources spawn in the exact same way you remove this from the game entirely - something I beleive has been part of the AoE lineage and belongs in the game.

You also don’t need to make a game competitive. Players will do that themselves, just make a really damn good game and the competitive scene will follow.

  • Treasures: On the first look, treasures seem to be very interesting, but here’s the issue. Luck must not be awarded by any means.

Treasure are interesting, and they can be a decent implementation into a game. I have no strong opinion on them, I would be happier if they were left out. I strongly disagree with “Luck must not be rewarded” I think this is a very short sighted and uncreative approach to take to design.

Luck should never decide the outcome of a game, there should never be a situation where I find a treasure and win the game, but there should absolutely be situations where I can find something (An exposed resource pile placed by the map generator for example) that could be considered lucky to exploit. The key points here are that having a lucky position should require skill and knowledge to properly exploit and a lucky position should never entirely dictate the win condition.

  • No Patches/Changes: AoE3 was my favourite game of all time so far. Yet it stayed the same for years and years without any changes. I want the game to be alive. Patches, balance changes, meta-shifts, etc.

This is another water is wet situation. Of course everyone wants there to be some adjustments - but too many adjustments too often can also be unhealthy for the game. Oftentimes its better to let a meta sit for a few months before taking action rather than pushing a balance patch every other week.

  • Matchmaking System: in all AoE multiplayer games (as far as I know) you can choose your own opponents by deciding whether you want to play or rather kick a player out of the lobby that might be a threat to your rank/elo. STOP THAT. Hosting games and having the might over letting certain People join or not is disastrous. Of course you should be able to play with your friends, BUT MAKE THOSE GAMES UNRATED.

Matchmaking systems are one of the fastest ways to kill the community feel of your game and its killed a lot of games, especially RTS games. The lobby system may be outdated but it has its place. The only exception is if your community is built around the matchmaking system with games like Dota/LoL etc where ranked play are the highest thing ever. Age of Empires is not that sort of competitive experience. Its primarily a game about having a good time in a lobby with people playing custom games, relaxing map modes or other things. Forcing competitive play upon everyone with a matchmaking system seems like a good decision but it needs to be done deliberately, with care and in possession of a proper assessment of all the positive and negatives.

Matchmaking systems seriously negatively impact the quality of your community and you implement them blindly and your game will suffer.

I’m not saying they shouldn’t implement one. I’m saying that they should think carefully about whether it belongs in AoE because there are a lot of really difficult decisions that you have to make if you implement matchmaking and often no matter which decision you make it ends up hurting your game.

  • Bugs/Pathing: If bugs exist, I hope you fix them and dont let players abuse them for 3 years before doing anything. Everyone who played AoE knows about the pathing issue, especially for melee cavalry in AoE3.

Bug and silly pathfinding are actually incredibly important for the balance of a game. Day9 has a really good video about this on Starcraft Brood war. If you fix those issues you seriously impact the balance and feel of a game often in very negative ways. Its why I’m mildly sceptical of the AOE2 DE if they plan to fix the pathfinding.

It seems like a no brainer thing to fix but it can seriously damage the game experience - even worse than having kinda poopy pathfinding.

@PotatoMcWhiskey said:

@Chusik said:

  • Balancing: Balanced maps and civilizations is a must. The resources on the maps have to be almost perfectly equal, to make it a competitive game, and therefore having a large playerbase.

Saying civilizations need to be perfectly balanced isn’t exactly useful feedback. Thats like saying water is wet - everyone knows that we want civs to be reasonably balanced. I’m also not entirely sure perfect balance should be the goal. The most interesting game experiences often have inequality in balance - with some civs or races being strong in one aspect or another and a different civ or race being very strong in completely different aspects.

I personally believe the best way to balance a game is to make the skill ceiling for that game functionally infinite, in that there is not point where being able to pull off more actions offers a diminishing return. It allows players to specialise in certain styles, and even if there is a balance difference between two races and player with better execution can over come it using mechanical skill and decision making.

The starting resources on the maps should be perfectly equal in the sense that each player has a minimum amount of resources within a certain distance of their town center, but AOE is not starcraft - the game has a lineage of some random elements and I think that the position and distance of those resources should be somewhat randomized. Perhaps your gold resource spawns 8 tiles away towards your opponent meaning you’re easier to raid whereas your opponents gold pile spawned behind their base 10 tiles away. These small fluctuations in the set up of the game board offer players the ability to distinguish themselves by read the state of the game and making decisions about how to approach a given situation. If all resources spawn in the exact same way you remove this from the game entirely - something I beleive has been part of the AoE lineage and belongs in the game.

You also don’t need to make a game competitive. Players will do that themselves, just make a really **** good game and the competitive scene will follow.

  • Treasures: On the first look, treasures seem to be very interesting, but here’s the issue. Luck must not be awarded by any means.

Treasure are interesting, and they can be a decent implementation into a game. I have no strong opinion on them, I would be happier if they were left out. I strongly disagree with “Luck must not be rewarded” I think this is a very short sighted and uncreative approach to take to design.

Luck should never decide the outcome of a game, there should never be a situation where I find a treasure and win the game, but there should absolutely be situations where I can find something (An exposed resource pile placed by the map generator for example) that could be considered lucky to exploit. The key points here are that having a lucky position should require skill and knowledge to properly exploit and a lucky position should never entirely dictate the win condition.

  • No Patches/Changes: AoE3 was my favourite game of all time so far. Yet it stayed the same for years and years without any changes. I want the game to be alive. Patches, balance changes, meta-shifts, etc.

This is another water is wet situation. Of course everyone wants there to be some adjustments - but too many adjustments too often can also be unhealthy for the game. Oftentimes its better to let a meta sit for a few months before taking action rather than pushing a balance patch every other week.

  • Matchmaking System: in all AoE multiplayer games (as far as I know) you can choose your own opponents by deciding whether you want to play or rather kick a player out of the lobby that might be a threat to your rank/elo. STOP THAT. Hosting games and having the might over letting certain People join or not is disastrous. Of course you should be able to play with your friends, BUT MAKE THOSE GAMES UNRATED.

Matchmaking systems are one of the fastest ways to kill the community feel of your game and its killed a lot of games, especially RTS games. The lobby system may be outdated but it has its place. The only exception is if your community is built around the matchmaking system with games like Dota/LoL etc where ranked play are the highest thing ever. Age of Empires is not that sort of competitive experience. Its primarily a game about having a good time in a lobby with people playing custom games, relaxing map modes or other things. Forcing competitive play upon everyone with a matchmaking system seems like a good decision but it needs to be done deliberately, with care and in possession of a proper assessment of all the positive and negatives.

Matchmaking systems seriously negatively impact the quality of your community and you implement them blindly and your game will suffer.

I’m not saying they shouldn’t implement one. I’m saying that they should think carefully about whether it belongs in AoE because there are a lot of really difficult decisions that you have to make if you implement matchmaking and often no matter which decision you make it ends up hurting your game.

  • Bugs/Pathing: If bugs exist, I hope you fix them and dont let players abuse them for 3 years before doing anything. Everyone who played AoE knows about the pathing issue, especially for melee cavalry in AoE3.

Bug and silly pathfinding are actually incredibly important for the balance of a game. Day9 has a really good video about this on Starcraft Brood war. If you fix those issues you seriously impact the balance and feel of a game often in very negative ways. Its why I’m mildly sceptical of the AOE2 DE if they plan to fix the pathfinding.

It seems like a no brainer thing to fix but it can seriously damage the game experience - even worse than having kinda poopy pathfinding.

Here is someone who knows how to make a proper multiplayer mode and not todays “competitive/multiplayer” mode.

I would like to make the HUD smaller and bigger in the settings that would be awesome.

And i mostly play Age of empires 2 i do not know why but i prefer AOE2.

But i think that Age of empires Microsoft* team should make a better marketing.

Just look at the video it only has 6.2 million views, to be honest this game deserves 100 million views

but people try to be relevant by trying to be someone else like just look at PUBG it’s a stupid game
it only has 1 point staying alive (( AOE has that too but it’s more intense better not just some guns firing each other, PUBG involves luck while AOE involves Strategy and using your brain)).

Microsoft this game has a lot of potential do not screw this up i believe in you.

I personally like multiplayer since I grew up on AOEO. But I see @Mehkind and @PotatoMcWhiskey . Favoring one type of player base is blatantly unethical.

Yeah game based in open boxes for customize your civ. Pay2win.
I prefer cuphead thing. You know arcade and non casual friendly. And with humble development and revs like that.

I have goose bumps… Sorry. This Topic author is …
I am so glad this guy wrote this. I am a player since AOE I, I played in MSN gaming zone which spirit was lost with AOE 3 ESO horrible system investing in players immaturity (killing fun and matchmaking possibilities due to greed and need to “FORESEE” and forecast if one could win or not making players eager to earn points (of course this is normal the desire to win but if we foster it with corrupted DYNAMICS it’s a Crime!).

I am so glad this guy up here only in love since 2010 wrote those so clear points.

I really wish as far as the game developing chances are actually really big (new technolgies, from cloud computing to the one I suggest of Multiplayer enhancement of Synching, Switchable Avatar; to the topic of the game and so on) the points that are mentioned in the Pilot post of the topic are really DEEPLY felt and heard.

Desynch is normal, it is due to protocols and game bad design (we are human) etc.
Please: make sure to introduce a SAVE GAME system that saves randomly the game and honest player can restart the game every time it desyncs it should happen on a low as 19% of games and even lower… but if you introduce this feature u need to make sure:

SAVING TIME is random, people do not know from where they will start, otherwise they will place their bets in the interest of winning or losing the game.

ELOrating issue: if desync happens or one disconnects or uses similar hacks trainers to profit a win from disconnecting opponents SCORE should not be updated.

Please make sure that Rank system is only ELORATING nothing else. We don’t need ranks PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.

Please do not Localize voice overs as it is tradition (not racist and apartheid as Relic has done for COH with german accent over english input on a german trooper just to mention one huge error) you will bolster the ethnical stereotype that US, ISrael and any regime media keep on going to divide and control the crowds since 1920 …

Please progress. There are enhancement must be done ideologically, and also progress that must be done technically nor repeating bad errors or bad choices and innovating and experimenting listening to BIG AOE PLAYERS. WE are your experience. You can’t match our experience put together even if we don’t know the budget and what is your contract with Microsoft (but we could hack it out actually) we need to be heard before making a bad mistake.

@DeckTester said:
I want a ranked mode with tiers such as league of legends, for example.

From answers \ opinions\ “taste” if this is taste\ and ideas like these you understand that people have no idea of what gaming was before. New “players” with no experience of past gaming are destroying gaming… making them all the same just because they need to show off.

Hybris all day long. Pew pew stuff (quoting Worth a buy Mack)…
It won’t take a lot to put a cross over this game if the policy is DLC, skin, pay to win, pay to look good, pay to speak and have right to have a different idea.

Please do not UNIFORM to the money making finance policy all over and RPGish games all over the “market”.