Make Ottoman Great Again

Age of Empires IV IV - Discussion
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I’m just someone who plays Ottomans. So I have a lots of ideas. I’m not saying that all of my ideas should be added to the game. I believe that some of my ideas will make Ottomans better. I’ll share a few bugs at the end. MAKE OTTOMAN GREAT AGAIN

First of all, People think that after the nerf to military school, civilization is bad. In fact, civilization is dead after the nerf to Imperial Council. Exactly in this patch.

Therefore, Vizier points requirements can get a buff.

Imperial Council:
Tier 1-> “Mehter Drums” Mehter needs to give his movement speed buff to the area, not to the same formation.
In addition, I want to Mehter always be positioned in the exact center of the entire army and Please fix the movement problems.
Tier 2-> “Military Campus” In addition, may give one military school for free. Or may give a discount to the next military schools.
Tier 2-> “Timariots” Rename the Cavalry Archer to “Akinci” or “Timariot”. Make it fully available from the Feudal Age onwards. Delete this useless Vizier point. Please bring something else that is more functional.
Tier 2-> “Extensive Fortifications” Can be placed at tier 4. You can’t get it before Burgrave Rush anyway.
Tier 4-> “Siege Crews” It should have a direct effect without requiring a garrison. If it is +25% OP, it can be changed.
Tier 4-> “Trade Bags” Can be placed at tier 2. I miss Feudal Trade Ottomans.

Landmarks:
Istanbul Imperial Palace- It should be universal aura instead of ranged aura effect.
Mehmed Imperial Armory- Battering Ram’s base training time needs to be reduced to 60 seconds.

Military School Pricing:
In my opinion, making military schools cheaper would solve the problem. There is currently a feature that makes military and technological buildings cheaper as a civ feature. However, this feature does not affect military schools. If it does affect military schools, the price will be 100 wood and 67 stone.
Military Inducement: Military and Technology buildings are 33% cheaper.
Or they can make price changes specifically for military schools. They can change the pricing from cheap to expensive. Byzantine’s cistern pricing would be a good example of this.

Military School Ticket System:
Actually, the Ottomans needs radical changes. Maybe the ticket system would be a good change for Military Schools. I can give an example of this as Tanegashima Gunsmith in Japan. This system will allow us to produce tickets instead of units. In other words, instead of producing 3 spearmen from the Dark Age to the Feudal Age, it will produce 6 tickets. When you enter the Feudal Age, you can buy 1 Sipahi by spending 4 tickets. This will give the Ottomans a great tempo. We can accept the XP values ​​in the Imperial Council as the basis for pricing. In addition, military schools can have a setting where they can continue production continuously, as they are now. An upper ticket limit can be considered against accumulating tickets and suddenly producing a lot of units.

Miscellaneous Ottoman Bugs:
Twin Minaret Medrese is not selected as a mill in the keyboard shortcut.
Extensive Fortifications;
->Extensive Fortifications do not refund resources if you take the Vizier point while there are defensive buildings deployed but not constructed.
->Currently, Stone Wall Towers do not get the 20% discount, despite being defensive buildings.
->Extensive Fortifications doesn’t affect Sea Gate Castle garrison arrows.
Sea Gate Castle’s Trade Protection ability bonus is maintained for 20 seconds after leaving the aura. It actually maintained for 15 seconds after leaving the aura.
A Grand Galley that acts as a military school can’t delete units in its production queue. Also can’t delete garrison units.

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I dont play with Ottomans any more thanks to devs. Other civs have received good bufs but Ottomans gets only nerfs. Vezier Points are very bad. Age 2 great bombard is the most absurd vezier point. Its uselessness is beyond writing here. Another bad vezier point is that Jans Corps. They are useless and cant provide the Ottomans win the game. Getting imam vezier points arent good enough. Ottomans land marks espacially Sultanhanı Trade Network, İstanbul İmperial Palace and Sea Gate Castle. They are so bad. Ottomans is uselless civ in the game.

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Bro thats a clever idea each time you build a military school it gots expensive very nice.4 military school is 1000 res they can make it cost the same for 4 of them while each is gettin more expensive than other.It should be capped at 150 wood 100 stone.

OR

They can make them 20 wood 20 stone cheaper

OR

Little buffs to the age 2 landmarks like more food for the berry landmark and more gold for the trader income in the trade landmark.

Very agree to this also their price need to be cheaper since they nerfed.They should delete all useless vizier points and make a fourth row special for the Istanbul Imperial Palace.Like +1 military school,%20 faster villager creation with blacksmith aura bonus,janissary +10 health… sometihng like that and only one can be chooseable from this row.

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So I do agree that there are some changes to make, but I had a different direction in mind.

Imperial Council:

Level 1

  • Field Work → Mullahs: Religious unit with aoe heal as added as a unique unit to the mosque. Ships two when point is selected. Costs 250 gold, max 1 per age, cannot capture relics/SS.

  • Military Campus ->Frontier Garrisons: Ships a military school wagon (+1 max schools). Military schools have a garrison capacity of 10.

  • Extensive Fortifications → Frontier Garrisons: Outpost LoS +10 tiles. Emplacement range/Garrison arrow range set to 8 and added +2 vs heavy

Level 2

  • Timariots → Rumeliots: Enables early knights/lancers in age 2. (Cavalry archer added to archery range as normal age 3 unit)

  • Mehter Drums → Move speed aura . Aura effect increased by 50%.

  • Anatolian Hills → Pastoralism: Food drop off buildings (mills/tcs) generate a sheep every 120 sec (not reducible).

Level 3

  • Advanced Academy → Devshrime System: Reduces train time multiplier of base units to x3.75. Lancer and janissary added with base train time of x4.75.

  • Siege Crews → Topcular: Same thing but name update

  • Janissary company → Siladars: Janissaries, Lancers have +25 hp but cost +25% gold. Cavalry Archers, Sipahi cost -15%.

Level 4

  • Great Bombard → Dardanelles gun: Great Bombard gain a charged shot ability - fire a projectile at 16 range for double damage vs keeps, but no aoe. 240 sec cooldown.

  • Pax Ottomana → Cift Hane: Town centers can train Oghuz Turkmen - villagers that cost 150 food, have +20 hp, gather 30% slower (except hauntable/herdable) but take up no population. Max 30.

  • Trade Bags → Transcontinental Trade: Same thing, name just needs an update.

Mehter Rework

Aura only benefits infantry and cavalry. Bonuses changed to → 20% melee damage reduction, 15% ranged damage reduction, 15% attack speed.

Atm, the attack speed aura is far and way the best setting for most things. The change to percentage base damage reduction is to keep all stances relevant as more high damage units show up (knights, handcannons, etc). Excluding siege is arguable, but makes sense to me since the new mether would be stronger.

Landmarks:

Dark Age

  • Twin Minaret Medresse - Spawns 6 berry bushes initially, adds +2 bushes per age (max 10).
  • Istanbul Observatory - Increases blacksmith influence to 50%/75%/100% per age.

A small early buff to the Medresse for early food needs and a bit more per age for scalability.
Observatory pretty lame compared to SGC since the trade income is alot more valuable than improved production - thats at age 4 tho, when Military schools are maxed out anyway. Early on, a production boost would be more noticeable.

Feudal Age

  • Sea Gate Castle - Can have +2 Emplacements with +2 range.
  • Mehmed Imperial Armory - Enables upgraded siege weapons*.

Sea Gate is demoted to a strong keep. Aging up to 3 with this is designed to be a safe option if you’re on the back foot. A free keep is pretty valuable in a pinch.
Mehmed Imperial Armory as it is right now is a pretty solid landmark so this is a very soft pitch. A more offensive option the Sea Gate to close out when you have an advantage - sort of a offence/defense trade for age3.

Castle Age

  • Sultanhani trade network - Traders move +30 faster and have +8 armor. Traders trickle gold for every unit traveled instead of lumpsums at the ends of tripes.
  • Istanbul Imperial Palace - Removes max limit for vizier points. Acts as university with unique technologies**.

For age 4, Sultanhani is upgraded to be the backbone of the Otto eco, modeled after a 3 continent land trade route. Changes traders so that they give gold for every unit they travel as a steady trickle instead of large deposits at the ends - should be same value but more reliable.
Istanbul Imperial Palace is the other option - trade the raw eco for raw military power.

*Upgraded siege:

  • Sahi cannon → gunpowder trebuchet. 3 pop, fires every 5.375 seconds, 16 range and benefits from chemistry. Fires projectiles in an arc. No setup time.
  • Obuz gun → gunpowder mangonel. 2 pop, range 10, 1 projectile with 0.5 tile splash (50% damage falloff), 4.25 fire rate, base damage 15 + 30 vs infantry. Fires projectiles in an arc.

Only thought here was that the Ottos remodeling gunpowder weapons to field and siege specialties was a major advance to the medivial army system.

**New Techs:

The army of the Ottomans was mostly cavalry, beginning to end. Felt like some cav specific perks were due.

  • Cavalry Sabers: Sipahi gain +7 vs mounted units (age 4, stable, 300 food 700 gold)

Cavalry Sabers is from the turkmen usage of thick, short, curved blades for dueling other mounted units. A fast trash unit that can soft counter heavy cav feels like it should be an expensive tech.

  • Cebelu: Lancers gain +4 vs heavy units. (age 3, stable 200 food, 300 gold)

Stricly it was the OG turks that came up with using long maces on horseback, but the Ottomans are part Oghuz anyway. It’s not like they didnt use them too.

  • Timariots: Cavalry archers gain +2 armor. (age 3, archery range, 250 food 300 gold)

So after Tamerlane took out Bayezid he made the turkmen under him develop armor, so that horse archers could fight in melee more effectively after running out of arrows. The Ottomans got better and adapted this for themselves.

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They are all very well thought-out things but it makes sense to give only some of them because in this way the ottoman becomes too strong and everyone starts complaining and with multiple attenuations it becomes useless again. What needs to be done is to ensure that it deals with other civilizations without disturbing the balance.

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For sure. I was just throwing out a bunch of ideas for a pick-and-choose sorta deal. Just think of it as brain storming.

The only really critical thing for ottos is to speed up the age1 a bit.

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Im main ottoman and i only play ottoman
Im skipping every single game against all in strats, french 1v1 ottoman get +4 workers at min 7, so you not only need to deal knights in feudal (empowered with healings) also you have -4 workers

On top of that, french have cheaper upgrades and free stable landmark

I not care if its beateable by being twice better than my opponent, im skipping that together with longbow rush english, zxu archers rush, hre maa rush, or byz all in

At this point i not even care opinions like “deal with it” “challenge” , i want choose a civ because i like it and play a proper balanced game where i have the same power and spike than any civ i play against

edit: This units got nerfed the last patch, look what they can do

Thats byz strong eco, strong units, strong landmarks, strong survivality, and strong finish in off a feudal game with empowered rams
I not want nerfing byz to the ground, i just want play a balanced game where if you have a strong eco, you not have special units or empowered units, if you have weak eco you have strong units. There are pretty much 3 side from devs side to touch the game:

1: Landmarks = Spike
2: Eco bonus = Passive spike
3: Empowered units = Agressive spike

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Pro players say if you lose in gold it is your skill problem but in the real game english,hre and other civs bonuses are basic and effective. My last match with hre we are very close spam. He went aachen and made only maa in the feudal. I don’t handle with this guy. When ı go sipahi his maa easily kills my sipahis also maa cheaper than sipahi.

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You are going to loose your gold mine if its hre with opening archers then MAA ignoring any defense you can have or unit you can have, in the best case you will force them to dve under tc, but you will not touch your gold

If its english longbow as opening again when he have 20 or 30, you will never catch up enought sipahi because they are x2 cheaper and have x2 faster craft time (if you want do the actual numbers you will be very surprised how unbalanced is)

If its byz pretty much same stuff opening with empowered archers in few frontline finishing with empowered rams

All these examples with better eco than ottoman, like actually much better eco and even defenses

Your eco sucks, your defenses sucks, you not have special units, and actually your special units are just 2: Great bombards and jannisary, both for late game due economy/imperial. I not even count sipahi its just a horse with a active ability worth for other units and not for sipahi itself since they are weak (low hp and armor)

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Otto do not need buff, almost highest winrate on conq

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You are crazy if you think they need buff

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and since late game springald is gone, Great Bombard has 0 Counter

https://www.reddit.com/r/aoe4/comments/1gzy75o/a_brief_summary_of_siege_changes_week_5/

Late Game Death ball kills everything

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You don’t understand the main also other bombards are very good. if you go with other civs with bombard they are cheap and almost same damage to infantry. At that point all of the pro gamers says otto sucks. These statistics not very meaningful.

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Turkish players have been spamming the forums since the launch of the game (October 28, 2021), asking for Ottoman civ to be OP. When do you plan to stop? Honest question.

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It is not about wanting Ottomans op, it is about giving always nerf to the Ottomans. Other civs has good buffs, Ottomans doesnt have good buffs. Ottomans veziers points suck, landmarks suck so Ottomans suck. Even pro players accept that Ottomans sucks. You come the forums to write only this message after 6 months.

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I am of half Hungarian half Mongolian origin . So please stop blaming people for weirdo accusations.
Also , Ottomans are ‘‘D’’ tier for almost every pro player. Probably for some reason right ?
One more thing for people to know that Ottomans are not just Turkish , Ottomans are an empire consist of Greeks , Turks , Polish , Serbian and even Russian etc. Only the cavalry forces in ottoman empire was of Turkic origin as far as i know.

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With military school thing , it is really hard to balance them i believe. A simple touch can get this civ from worst to OP . I believe this is what it is.

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Undoing the nerf to vizir point XP requierement would be good thing to do, it just got double nerf as its also get impacted by the mill school nerf. And because of that you lose a bit of tempo when you need it.
It would also make the cavalry archer point less awkward as it would hopefully be available when it’s still somewhat relevant.

To be a bit more adventurous the price of mill schools could be progressive kinda like cisterns. The first one(s) could be dead cheap but the entire set up of 4/5 mill schools is maybe a bit more expensive to get to. The main goal would be to buff their feudal or even early castle.

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For this i can say make 2 military schools and 1or2 stable make only spearman from military schools keep making sipahi and 1 mehter you can out number and even defeat man at arms easly.

Thats so true they just need a little feudal buff not too much either buff to their landmarks or cheaper like 20 wood 20 stone cheaper military schools.

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