When it was first announced, the Sicilians were truly a civilization that many of us (at least myself) really wanted to play, because they had a new bonus thought to be OP, a tanky UU, promising water play, and a new building: the Donjon
After some changes to the civ, like removing their water civ nick and replacing it with a cavalry civ and buffing/nerfing (generally nerfing) their bonus and UU; the Donjon still hurts the Sicilians more than it gives them an advantage against other civs
How would you change/improve the Donjon to make it at least playable without making the Sicilian Donjon Rush a nightmare in ranked matches?
I would make them cheaper (close to a normal tower) and improve their attack and hit points in each age as if you researched a tower upgrade in university for free (like the Koreans). I like the idea of making them able to train Sergeants and be build by them; I don’t like the last update of train pikes, but whatever. Also, I would love to see Donjon improve graphically in each Age in a similar way to Folwark
What are your thoughts?
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I’d change the cost of the donjon to 75w 140s, increase build time a little bit maybe, making it more of a defensive building instead of a rush building, and replace tower upgrade with a donjon upgrade in castle age that would add more attack and more hp.
I like the pike thing, it helps a lot as a defensive building, especially in Feudal and early castle age. I just think the cost of the donjon is way too high. if you make 2 defensive donjons in feudal age, you’re already giving up making TCs in early castle age. I am a fan of this strat because i like turtling, but it rarely works 
too many resources spent in donjons while i can’t boom early, enemy goes imp, trebs, gg.
I think towers in general need a buff tbh.
I like Hera’s suggestion to make Serjeants garrisoned in Donjons contribute to the arrow count like villagers. That would make a Serjeant-only Donjon rush much stronger and it could quickly snowball much more easily.
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I thknk we could go even further and allow cav to fire arrows too
I think pushing for Donjons to be more central for the Sicilian play could be quitevinteresting
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I like to experiment with out of meta BO and strats. Right now I’m playing exclusively Sicilians, trying a kind of donjon+sarjeant rush. I could say that donjon stats are in a good spot. The pike training is good. The cost could be reduced a little.
I would change not the donjon but First Crusade effect into spawn sarjeants from donjon instead of TCs. This way, donjon could turn into a key asset in your game plan, both as defensive or ofensive tool. You can turtle with donjons in feudal and then reach castle age with eco oriented to stone gathering to build a castle asap (synnergizes well with building speed bonus) and unleash First crusade.
Another idea could be address the problem of being easily destroyed because of 2x2 size in feudal by removing the minimum range. Maybe reduce it’s damage and maintaining the high cost to make it less oppressive.
This way you have to chose between hurt your eco sending vils forward but have a very strong donjon rush. Make a donjon rush only with Sarjeants, less effective but doesn’t hurt your eco. Or a full feudal all-in with sarjeants, vils forward but zero eco.
The problem with Donjons is that they are both a replacement for the tower line but also more larger and fortifications which should be more beefy and expensive. By making a it less expensive you are making an essentially larger tower, By making it beefier but also more expensive and take longer to build; you are robbing Sicilians of the utility of towers by forcing them to invest into a much more expensive structure.
Currently Donjons are pathetic for what they offer they get the base 5 atk across all ages, yes but they get an extra arrow in CA and Imp but so do Yasama towers and with 8 base attack. They get the same HP as Guard Towers and Keeps, their extra garrison capacity does not translate to more Arrows in fuedal age unlike Teutons, Not requiring upgrades is nice but so do Koreans and to be honest I consider Donjons to be sidegrades to Guard tower and Keeps except they are more expensive.
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Totally agree
If the devs want to make Donjon a defensive fortification with more garrison capacity but less damage, then make it cheaper and then what’s the point of training Serjeants to defend the base?
If the devs want an offensive building, increase the attack in the same way as the tower line and reduce the garrison capacity
What if Donjons healed garrisoned units as fast as castles and kreposts? That way with Herbal Medicine you could really effectively keep your Serjeants topped up and in the action.
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