Mali improvements suggestions

The feudal age tower landmark needs BBQ, Kremlin like emplacement upgrades. Also the toll from this landmark needs to be independent of the 5 toll max otherwise it force tower configurations.

Musofadi warriors need some love. I’m a fan of HP buffs over armor. Also I’m a fan of giving these units extra LOS to facilitate it’s raiding functionality.

Javelin throwers need to attack on the 1.62s attack speed, adjust dps as necessary. This will allow the kiting to match that of standard range units combat. 2.12s attack speeds works for xbows bc they’re going ideally against heavy; and it works for HC bc they have a very high base dmg.

Speed up the posion in posion arrows from 6s down to 3s. OR increase the poison DPS to 1 dmg per sec for 4 to 5s!

Finally in Imperial give donsos or musofadi warriors or both a tech allow them to become meatshields worthy.

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This part is quite annoying, makes it clunky because now you have to be super careful with your future tower placements or you could negate the landmark tower.

They could make it independent, or they could just balance it where the bonus applies to all towers equally including itself so that you don’t have to worry about it.

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Mali is really good on maps where they have trade (video linked to show point). When they can go with the Saharan Trade Network, they do well. The problem I think is not all maps/match-ups allow for trade. So I think the alternative, the Mansa Quarry, should get buffed. This way they always have that massive gold economy. If the Mansa Quarry made all Pit Mines generate an additional (say 50% or so) gold it would do this. That’s what I would do anyway.

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You tell us Vinifrss, it was your post after all.

XDDDDD While not saying it wouldn’t be awesome, but as someone who has been toying around with malians and having landmark count as 5x tolls would broken af. You would gain insane return jut by having landmark next to neutral market
Malian trade is already most broken trade out there. Too bad trading is kind of weird spot in 1v1’s

i agree it need to have emplacement i dont agree with toll

instead this i would give the donso +1 range armor tech at castle and imperial because all infantry get countered by archers

if this happens no one can defeat them im writing here no one

i agree with that

Personally, I feel Musofadi Warriors are quite underwhelming.
They are just to squishy to be able to counter anything. pretty much all you effectivly need to counter the Malian armies are Heavy unit + Archers.
While the Javelin throwers counter the archers, in a practical fight, especially cavalry can easily apply pressiure.
Not to mention Javelin throwers have a tendency to focous on the melee infantry rather on the archer blob.
And the same can be said about archers.

However, both Musofadi and Donzo’s get countered pretty hard by archers and get flatlined.

Donzo and Musofadi warrior don’t really supplement each other well. Not compared to say, Man at arms and Landsknecht does for the HRE.
Despite Landknecht being just as squishy as Musofadi. They have a far greater impact in the battle.

And the Musofadi stealth is just, not very good. You can’t use it effectivly in a retreat.
It’s ambush damage is landmark dependant.
And every spots them out far to easily.

Personally I would prefer if the Musofadi Warrior stealth had a longer cooldown.
BUT, they retain the ability to attack WHILE in stealth. Acting like a quazi Starcraft Dark Templars for a limited amount of duration.

This makes their stealth far more usefull and tactical.
They can retain the squishyness.
And the stealth attacks gives them some limited protection from getting focused and shot to pieces in a frontline fight.
As well as not getting 1 hit KO’d by knight charges, allowing for better synergy with Donzo’s who will then be effective at stopping the charges. (if you have a line mixed of Donzo’s and Musofadi warriors, a line of knights charging in won’t get stopped by the Donzo spear-brace if the knight has the Musofadi warrior as the target.)

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increasing their hp doesnt turn them into a low attack high hp unit. feudal warriors currently at 85hp, early MAA 120. thats almost 50% difference

we could push musofadi up to 100hp, and they would still be super squishy, but at least not AS punishing. they’re taking 400% more damage from archers than MAA take. there’s huge room to keep them squishy damage dealers

gtfo. is this another alt account? edit: yes it is

great idea, its only a +5% increase on total tolls? so thats not too oppressive?

yeah also good idea, LOS at least, so they can raid and use their stealth better, instead of sumbling around blind, but that being said they need to fix stealth first. adding a low level first strike would be nice, and then fort of the huntress can buff it? or increase bonus vs heavy

yeah these are a tough one, imo the biggest issue which cant be avoided is targetting frontline units, like skirmishers in aoe2. they will always be a lot more micro dependent than other units, which is really bad in a game like this, on top of the even higher level of over kill unless ####### even more

im happy to even see a change from 3 over 6 to 3 over 4. at least see how it goes.

Just watched the beasty video. Seems poison arrows are bugged. Caps at 8 arrows. Which is huge. So if they fix that’s they might not even have to buff poison arrows

would give them the tech, as with the warrior buffs, they will at least be a lot more useful, leaving donsos. maybe give their elite tech +1 PA? they’re carrying a shield after all, the game isnt historically accurate, but it can at least give the pretence that a shielded unit is more armoured (not just MA)

I think musofadi should have buffed line of sight and maybe a first strike from stealth bonus by default. Also, their stealth should be buffed.

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I think i already said this but the musofadi in small numbers, cost for cost, has a positive trade rate vs any feudal unit, yes even archers if they can significantly bodyblock.

Where musofadi and all of mali suffers, and they told us as much, is in prolonged fights where range backline units have free dps…

So the question becomes if its BY DESIGN that prolong engagement do NOT favor mali roster??? How do you as mali influence most your engagements to be small skirmishes??? Especially at the mid to low APM gameplay???

I think this is the concept they wanted stealth to facilitate by forcing the enemy to be slow expand with scouts and towers to reduce being ambushed. However i think either detection still needs attention as it pertains to towers and or scouts. And the length of stealth needs to be looked at bc with such low LOS, and without your own scout, how will you know there is a group of juicely villagers along that small woodline??

Alright i fixed it!!! How about if stealth lasted 30s, but while in stealth your LOS increases to that of a scout’s LOS. AND for detection vs non tower, non main TC, and non scout units only occurs upon first strike or obviously sleath time running out!! That last part is important bc sometimes youll have a few units ahead of the group and they start revealing themsleves before the whole group is there and ruining the ambush. This way you could rally to desired point THEN attack in sync.

is this true? even with bare minimal kiting? archers were beating horsemen without armour, i dont see how they’re losing to something thats exponentially worse?

how badly did your opponent mess up if you can body block with tiny warriors, but opponent cant kite?

i think this is how everyone assumed it was supposed to work, and anything except this is actually a bug, so not even a buff, just a fix required

yes this is more than likely the intent, a lot of people seem to be ignoring the healing tech. musofadi can heal 40hp while in stealth, which obviously implies you are meant to be doing hit and run with them, to maximise this

combine this with a minor first strike and they will be good i think :slight_smile:

Its broken af. ROFL. Its not just 5% more its 25% more because 5x5 = 25%

Ok firstly toll landmark provides 10% of food and gold which translates into 100% extra income with this change. In 1v1 its somewhere around 170-200G that one trips provides as gold so you would get instantly profit from just passing the landmark.

Needless to say this would make Malians even more broken in TG’s, because they’re already completely busted in TG’s. Even HRE with 10 relics is not capable of stopping them or 2-3 other civs. For example last game I did in 4v4. I hit imperial around 14-15min mark and started adding production. After that I just rallied everything to opponents base while my allies were struggling 3v2 on otherside. I fought 2v1 on myside (map was nagari) I constantly fought under the keep and other stuff and completely stompped rus and malians in 2v1 especially when sofa can be turned into firelancers

Also malians are only civ that essentially can go 1TC and around 30-40 villagers if they get into trade / cow boom and have massive army. I usually don’t have more than 90-100 vills/traders.

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what is “small” to you? b/c in small numbers archers do nothing to horseman???

javelin throwers need to attack faster or a longer range

Wtf? I have no idea wtf you’re talking about, you said a small number of warriors can body block archers. :joy:

Previously horsemen had zero PA as well. And in the early game archers were beating horsemen.

Warriors are taking double the damage Horsemen were, while doing less dmg, and being slower, I see zero scenario where a large enough number of warriors that can body block ANYTHING, won’t die to an archer ball of equally “small” numbers

Please goal post somewhere else

Your maths is astounding and I don’t think you understand what we’re talking about

Also go look up the WR on Malians instead of relying on your biased opinion (the tax bug doesn’t count, and even with it their WR is not great)

Maybe I don’t but from the suggestion gave quite clear idea that the toll landmark should count as 5 instead of 1 so you won’t have to make outposts, which makes it ridiculously powerful even in 1v1. If this is the idea behind the suggestion then it would make landmark the best landmark in game.

Im not saying malians do not need buff or bug fixes. They sure do. But buffing their trading is not one of them. Its already one of the best if not best in game

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horseman IN SMALL NUMBERS at NO TIME IN THIS GAME HAS EVER LOST TO small number of archers…wtf are you talking about???

What is YOUR definiton of small???