Maltese Alternative civ design

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
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Alternative Maltese Civilization Design

Following my recent “AOE3 VS History: The Maltese” video, someone asked me how I would have designed them. I plan to make another video on that, and I figured a good way to start that would be to make a forum post about it—so here we go.

Before I got into details, I figured I should lay out the plan. 1. I don’t want to change the military too much (early game). 2. I want to change the building system and Economy a lot, by focusing on a commandery system (not just one building)

Economy:

The Maltese economy will be building-focused. Not a shrine or bank-type building-based economy, but more of a buildings boost nearby economy type system—similar to how Wignacourt is now, but built into the system and not just a card. Think Gaia in AOM or whatever AOE4 civ has you connecting your buildings (or Hausa, but I think this is more in-depth). The basis for this is that the Knights Commanderies were estates, rather than simply a single building (although the main building on the estate could also be called a “commandry”). So, the idea is kind of that your town is kind of like a commandery system. There will be 3 basic buildings contributing to this system.

  • The church (build limit 1, then up to 3 with Carmelite churches). Increases connected military buildings’ work rate (religious fervor type thing).
  • The Tower (build limit 7) increases the HP of units nearby connected buildings (idea is that they’re taking cover).
  • The commandry (build limit 5). Increase connected economic buildings’ work rate and increase the nearby settler work rate (it’s an administrative building).

None of these would stack on themselves, but they would all work together. The Tower would replace the outpost for the Maltese; this commandery would be like the commandery we have now, with some changes (new assets for sure) but, the commandry would still shoot like it does now, and it still trains your cavalry (some changes to them later) Cost for all these buildings could be worked out.

Military:

The Maltese military will be somewhat similar early game (except the Hospitaller), but the late game will be different (and the midgame some). Just to keep things a bit simpler, I’m gonna keep the 2% hp per card but remove the healing over time. The Pikeman, Crossbowman, and Sentinel would all keep their base stats (sentinels only 4 speed), and they would still be trained from the Hospital.

The Arbalester would stay the same.

However, the Hospitaller would be trained at the Commandry, and it would be a 3-pop warrior monk-type unit, still wielding a large 2-handed sword but with a more accurate skin. Specific stats would be figured out later, but he’d be fairly tanky and able to heal nearby units between fights.

I would remove the fixed gun—I find it too hard to balance vs certain civ matchups, and I don’t think it’s necessary to the civ.

The fire throwers would stay (I acknowledge that there weren’t specific “fire throwers” but I think it’s an important unit class to properly show the cic), but they would be adjusted to better reflect reality (or at least reality as far as I could find). I would give them more standard armor, and they would no longer throw hoops—that element would be moved to a special upgrade card for towers—but they would throw clay jars. The damage would be lower than it is now, but I would increase the radius a lot and raise the “overtime” burning damage.

To somewhat make up for the loss of the fixed gun, the Basilisk upgrade will be adjusted to a Falconet royal guard upgrade instead of a culverin one. This upgrade would lower the speed of the Falconet but increase its range and damage by more (I think this is also more fun than the cul,v cause Italy also gets a unique culv already).

The depot is good, but I would change its look (the civ is gonna be more stone-based than wood-based).

Commanderies and Tongues:

I argued with myself for a while about how to make these, but I think I came up with something fun but not overly complicated. At a base, the commandery would have access to the Chevalier (new unit) and Dragoon. With how heavily infantry-focused the civ is, I think making the Chevelier a Naginata-style cavalry would work (and historically, a spear fits). To make it more “Knightly”, you could give it more HP but less damage.

The Tongue cards, instead of shipping units from those places (like lancers from Spain), will ship you Squadrons of your units (and a commandery and +1 build limit). The purpose of these cards is for competitive, not for as much for lategame.

“British Tongue”. Age 2, 450 wood, ships 6 pikemen, 6 crossbowmen, and 1 Chevelier (as well as the commandry).

“German Tongue”. Age 2, 450 wood, ships 6 sentinels and 1 Hospitaller (as well as the commandry).

“Spanish Tongue”. Age 3, 750 wood, ships 14 Sentinels, and 1 Chevalier (as well as the commandry).

“Italian Tongue”. Age 3, 750 wood, ships 3 Order galleys and 3 Hospitallers (as well as the commandry).

“French tongue”. Age 4, 1000 wood, ships 12 Dragoons and 1 Chevelier (as well as 3 commanderies and +3 build limit to showcase the three French tongues).

“Portuguese Tongue”. Age 4, 1000 wood, ships 6 falconets and 1 Chevelier (as well as the commandry).

This is 13 commanderies total if you ship all of them. The Russian Tongue card is changed to:

“Russian Resettlement”. Age 4, 2000 coin, increases Commandry build limit by +7 (this is mostly for late game style games for people who don’t want to ship 6 cards just to get to that higher build limit. But it wouldn’t be used much in comp because it’s 2000 Coin).

Specific cards:

Flame throwers will be replaced by “Trumps” in age 3 (watch the vid if you want to learn about why it’s called that). This card would also replace Fire towers, giving both your fire throwers and towers a charged Flame Thrower attack.

“Rockets” and “Flintlock rockets” would be removed (age 4 upgrade for Fire Thrower would increase range).

I wasn’t sure what I would do with the Sentinel late-game, but I think there are a few options.

  • Represent the British occupation of the island and the “regularizing” of their troops. )“Provincial Battalions”. The British raise local militias to defend the island. Makes the Sentinels 1 population, decreasing their attack and HP but increasing their range and speed.) The British, alongside the regular island militia, created a light infantry battalion so the range is to kind of showcase that without creating a new unit and lowering their stats is so they aren’t OP.
  • Lean more into the piracy identity of the Knights. The Sentinels (representing both the knights as well as the local Maltese) would have often been the same soldiers going on raids. So if you wanted to go a little wild with the design, you could go with (“Sea Devils”. Your soldiers become expert seamen, growing rich off piracy and raids. Grants Sentinels more range, a multiplier against settlers, and siege damage.)
  • Go with something more standard like (“Religious fervor”. Your soldiers are inspired to fight to the last to defend their faith. Increases HP and Damage). There are also other names or slight differences you could go with to cause a similar effect, but option 3 is my least favorite, so I’m not gonna go too deep with it.

“Walls guns” is changed into an age 3 Tower card that grants them a special second long ranged attack (good damage vs everything except cannons).

The “Knights of” cards would be adjusted for Hospitaler being a higher pop unit.

“Extensive fortifications” would be removed, and instead, you would have three Tower upgrade cards.

  • “Wignacourt Towers”. Ships 2 towers, increases Tower LOS by 4, and the Tower build limit by 2.
  • “Lascaris Towers”. Ships 3 towers, reduces their coin cost (Lascaris paid for the towers personally), and increases the Tower build limit by 2.
  • “De Redin Towers”. Ships 4 towers, enables the training of infantry (except Hospitallers) from them, and increases the Tower build limit by 2.

“Auberges” now grants commanderies +10 pop space and decreases Tongue cards’ costs. It cost 500 coin itself.

(New) “Saint Elmo’s pay” grants Towers a Big Button ability which enables the throwing of fiery hoops and fearing the enemy (the name comes from the payment (being shown no mercy), the Ottomans had to give for their treatment of the bodies of the knights of St. Elmo)

(New) “Rapiers” grants all units a new Rapier stance which sets them to a hand attack that is 20% better then their standard melee damage but with no multipliers.

I’m sure there are more cards you could adjust and add, but I think this is a nice start. Als,o all of this may seem OP, but it would be easy to adjust the numbers a bit to balance it. I know this won’t get made, but it was at least fun for me. Lemme know what you think!

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Definitely interesting. I like the auras. I like removing Fixed Guns for the reasons you mentioned.

Personally I might make sentinels a defensive “super-generalist” unit. Meaningfully higher stats around towers, but very little bonus damage. They’d cost more than a Musketeer, but outside of your base they’d be pretty weak for their cost (think worse than a regular Musketeer). With a heavy enough defensive bias they could be 1 pop. Giving them extra range near towers might be part of it. I think the TC might not help them. Forts would though.

I might have modeled the unique heavy cavalry off of the Mameluke. High hp and low damage without multipliers. Making them look like a Paladin/crusader knight.

On the Tongue cards, I broadly like the idea, but considering available units and which are best, you could make them mostly be anti-cavalry (filling a hole in your roster. Portuguese Dragoons (+2 range), British Musketeers (+10% attack), Germany Doppelsoldners (+10% speed and 5% cost), Russian Cavalry Archers (something for melee), etc. Each would get part of their respective civs’ bonus, but be a worse version. They’d have their Royal guard bonus, and the basic “half a card bonus” that comes with the unit, but no +10%/10% base (no higher cost either) and you have to pay to upgrade them with “Veteran Order Knights” Royal Order Knights” etc. You’d be almost forced to take one unless you only want Sentinels (soft anticav) or pikes.

Edit:

I think this never would have gotten done.

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What about a shipment or a UT that upgrades the Arbalester to a skirmisher like unit (Like the Rangers from the british or the Ordinance Rifleman from the portuguese)

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When the British controlled the island they did create a light infantry battalion but I didn’t think that warranted a whole unit.

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Also, Maltese Xbows are too epic to replace

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The reason I wouldn’t do something like this is just that I like sentinels too much to want to constrain them like that XD.

The art+descriptions I found didn’t seem to be super heavily armored cavalry (it probably would depend on the Knight). But they certainly should have a spear at least.

The reason I went away from the units from other civs thing is that it’s not super fun (imo) for a large part of a civs bonus being that it gets worse versions of other civs units. That and the shadow teching of the units makes it so you can’t easily buff the civ elsewhere without breaking the civ. I would be down for some kind of buff coming with each of the tongue cards.
Also Sentinels are super good anti cav so I’m not sure what you mean there.

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All fair enough, creative differences.

This was based on my rework suggestion. I was suggesting making them weaker vs cavalry, but having higher hp/attack and range when near towers. If done right they could actually be pretty crazy (keep in mind that they can build towers). Imagine base stats like this with a 50% aura from towers.

~40f 60c.
~Speed 4.25.
~Hp: 120, 20% MR.
~20 attack, 12 range (+4 from a tower)
~15 siege, 6 range.
~16 melee attack, 1.5x vs cavalry.

Edit: might be a way overkill, but kinda just an idea.

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I’d be amenable to lots of these changes, but there’s a few things I’d do differently:

Sticking with this would be shooting yourself in the foot right from the start. Though I would say the rest of your proposal is calling for a fair bit of change.

Chevalier is just French for Knight. Why not just call it a Knight?

Malta should also have Cranequiniers (Mounted Crossbows) instead of Dragoons. They could start off as a weakish light cav available in age 2, but get an extra buff from Steel Bolts.

Since the cavalry wouldn’t be order units anymore, they could probably get the HP buff per card too.

Also, like every single Malta building, Commanderies need a completely new model. In this case, one that actually shows a stable attached to signify it is the cavalry building.

If there’s any unit that should be trained at a Hospital it should be, you know… Hospitallers. Really, it is Hospitals that are the problem, not Hospitallers. They’re waaay too cheap for all that they do because allegedly, tent = cheap whether or not that’s balanced. If that’s the case then they ought to be a brick an mortar building with a reasonable cost (and that’s also a more realistic depection).

Nah, it’s a gimmicky toxic building with far more issues than looks. Explodey buildings can be cool, but they could just add the feature to some existing buildings such as Arsenals or defensive buildings.

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In the books and such I read that’s what they called it. And u think it sounds cooler.

Why should they get these? I did find that this way a thing they used heavily—at least not by their time on Malta.

They would, that buff applies to all natural Maltese units.

I had them being train from the commandry because they’re a more “knightly” but it would be find to have them in the hospital. My worry with making the hospital a more permanent building (although I would prefer that) would be all their buildings costing too much.

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Because they’re the archaic xbow civ and it would mesh well with a lot of their other features.

Having unique cavalry units let’s their stats be fine tuned to balance around the HP buff per card without throwing off the balance for other civs.

They would fit with their various cards that buff their existing units like Steel Bolts, Archaic Soldier Combat, etc.

They would work well for some of the Tongue cards. Portugal used mounted crossbows quite extensively, and it would be more fitting than sending Falconets which Portugal can’t even train. The French Tongue could send Falcs and Cheveliers instead.

As for them not being used heavily on Malta, that’s just a consequence of them being on a small island and hardly needing cavalry in general. Realistically, mounted xbows were mostly used as mounted infantry, and that kind of rapid deployment function would be one of the few uses of cavalry on an island. At the very least, they would have been used more than Dragoons.

That’s fair, might be worth reworking all their production buildings to avoid that. Maybe split off the Stable from the Commandery so getting cavalry isn’t so prohibitive? Or the Hospital could be made into the “knightly” building and train Hospitallers and Knights of Lazarus. The standard units could then go in a Barracks or some kind of Barracks/Outpost hybrid building.

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I meant thematically based on history. I meant to say I *didnt find they used them a lot. But they actually used other cavalry quite a bit in the siege (not large battles but important skirmishes). If Portugal used them a lot that might be an interesting card—but what I’ve found is that it seems the knights really leaned heavily into gunpowder. So I don’t particularly like them being so crossbow focused.

I played with the idea of a unique hospital building but if you split up things too much then your run into having too many buildings (even not fitting in the building roster for settlers).

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With the obsession DE has with random gimmick units for historical flavor am actually surprised Malta doesn’t have a card that unlocks Caccatori Maltesi as skirms.

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That would be sorties of mostly melee cavalry though. Did you actually come across anything mentioning Dragoons?

Yeah, just like every single other European civ after the early 1500s. Ideally there should be a light infantry Arquebusier unit for at least a few civs to represent the archaic firearms of the 1500s and 1600s, but the game kind of skips right over that to skirms and amalgamates Arquebusiers with Musketeers (or in this case, Sentinels).

Since there are no European Arquebusiers and Malta is 99% based on stuff from the 1500s which is too early for skims, that just leaves Crossbows. Also, keep in mind that the earlier siege of Rhodes falls in the AoE3 timeframe and xbows would have been a much more common weapon in that engagement. Harkening back to the Knights’ crusader heritage further emphasizes their archaic theming and reinforces having xbows as a signature weapon.

There’s lots of ways they could merge buildings and keep the total number in check. Personally, I’d go with something like this:

Buildings

Magazine - Merger of Artillery Foundry and Depot (does the full function of both)

Guardhouse - Trains Pikemen, Crossbows, and Sentinels and acts as an Outpost

Commandery - Keep it largely the same training cavalry and such. Just make it not look like shit

Hospital - Is a proper stone building. Has an aura that heals units and speeds up production of nearby buildings. Civilian units can garrison inside to heal even faster. Trains your roided up version of Hospitallers, Surgeons, and Lazarus Knights.

Cards

De Redin Towers - Ships 2 Guardhouse Wagons and reduces military building cost. That would help alleviate building costs since most of these buildings should probably cost at least 250.

Gunpowder Mills - Ships wagons that can construct Magazines, Mills, or Arsenals. Mills gain the detonate ability.

Units

Cranequinier - Replaces Dragoons at the Commandery.
Weak, archaic light cav available in age 2 that benefits from Steel Bolts and Archaic Soldiers combat cards.

Lazarus Knight - Powerful cavalry trained from Hospitals. Loses health over time but can still be healed. Could probably have a build limit too. (Alternatively there could just be a card that buffs Chevaliers and enables them at Hospitals)

I’d be on board with most of your other unit changes like swapping Hussars for Chevaliers, beefing up Hospitallers, nixing Fixed Guns, and making Basilisks a Falconet upgrade.

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They didn’t have dragoon companies but they would have had generic cavalry armed with pistols and rifles (which is how I see dragoons in game). And the Palace Armoury even showcases proper dragoon armor and weapons presumably owned by the knights (I couldn’t find pictures but here’s a link that gives some details on the armoury https://www.independent.com.mt/articles/2006-04-19/news/the-palace-armoury-90136/?utm_source=chatgpt.com)

Since this is technically the Maltese civilization I would personally prefer pulling more from their time on Malta than from their earlier crusader days.
Building off that you could create a raiding type unit based on the knights use of cavalry during their raids and counter raids in the 16-1700s—they even seemed to have ordered pistols for that purpose Maltese Flintlocks: Girard Mle 1733 Pistols of the Order of St. John - Forgotten Weapons

I like this. I don’t know anything about Lazarus Knights but I do like the buildings.

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ok, as a complete bot only, moderate difficulty scrub (aka, the best type of player), i kinda vibe a lot with that building idea, with malta lacking a good flashy passive, as theirs is pretty… stealthy when you’re not playing competitive. I especially like the economic focus on the idea, since malta’s eco is not great and especially LAME, since you don’T get that “tough insular siege resistant” vibe from their settlers.

military wise… idk. Hospitallers becoming 3 pop feels… too much, tough with stat changes mayybe? at the same time, the maltese military roster is something i’d just redo from the ground up rather than try to fix what we got. like, the roster feels strangely similar to the germans, just swapping their skirm for a… divisive.. musket troop. Firethrowers i like, being your mix between a grenadier and a skirm is nice, but do feel a bit strange from time to time, both in feel and performance, and that rocket card being pretty much a must.

One thing i would actually love to see with an alternative design would be the removal of tongue cards to make them our age up mechanic, or at least be something similar to the basilica/university, where you would order your special units/research tongue improvement (malta would have worked so well as an african-esque civ)

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It seems like they were deficient in formal cavalry of any kind really which makes sense for a small island nation. Ultimately there isn’t a strong historical case for either mounted crossbows or Dragoons and both are mildly plausible. The reason I lean towards Cranequiniers isn’t because of the history, it is because it jives really well with so many of their cards for upgrades and the Tongues. And they avoid the issue of trying to balance Dragoons who get extra health with every card.

They could also be used elsewhere, especially for Portugal. They always had a need for militias that could act rapidly to fend off Moorish raids and mounted crossbowman were great at that. Modifying the Besteiros tech to send a few would be a great way to include them (though that is the Portuguese Church tech least in need of an overhaul).

Not considering the Knights as a whole is leaving a lot on the table. Malta is a pretty marginal civ even including the entirety of the order across Europe. I don’t think you can exclude that and have them be tenable as a civ. Even so, their time on Malta starts a generation before the siege when they would have been using a lot more crossbows.

Lazarus Knights / Leper Knights / Lazarites are these guys:

The order of Lazarus is kinda pushing it when it comes to pulling from earlier crusader stuff (though they did have some military actions fighting pirates during the time of AoE3), but I mention it because a unit based off that would be very fitting to be trained from a Hospital. They were a Hospitaller offshoot founded to care for lepers, but they often became afflicted with the disease they were trying to treat. The Lazarites later went on fight as Leper Knights (which I would presume to be pretty tough since leprosy damages the nerves so you can’t feel pain). Eventually they were partially merged with the Knights of St. John.

They’re kind of anachronistic, but they would fit very well being trained from a Hospital. They could also have some really interesting mechanics related to their name and condition. Losing health over time would be fitting given their affliction with disease and that could be a trade off that justifies other really strong stats. The were almost suicidally brave because they often preferred dying as martyrs instead of their disease so a function like Eso Riders would be a good fit. They could also play into the Lazarus name and make them work like AoE2 Konniks and become a regular dismounted Hospitaller when the mounted version is killed.

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I feel like this would be a bit confusing, Malta would then have a military building to train infantry, one building to train cavalary, and another building to train infantry, cavalary and surgeons (Would they also still be able to make priests from the church?)
It seems needlessly complicated, Malta would be the civ with the biggest amount of military buildings

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Updated design implementing many of @M00Z1LLA’s thoughts.

Alternative Maltese civ design v2.

Civilization Bonus:

Unique buildings grant buffs.

Royal Guard Units:

Crossbowman (Arbalesters) and Falconet (Basilisks)

Unique Units:

Fire Thrower – 2 pop light grenade trooper that specializes in countering infantry. Has low HP and damage but good AOE and multipliers against infantry.

Grand Master – High HP explorer which increases build-rate of nearby buildings (basically the built in age 1 hero card but removing his ability to build things himself).

Hospitaller – 3 pop heavy melee infantry with high melee resist and a Large AOE sword. Good vs cavalry (basically a 3 pop Dopp with lower siege but better in melee)—can slowly heal nearby units when out of combat.

Sentinel – 2 pop heavy ranged infantry that specializes in defense. He can build Guard houses and is buffed by nearby allied buildings.

Chevalier – 3 pop heavy melee cavalry with High hp but also good speed (reference to their sorties and raids).

Cranequiniers – 2 pop light ranged cavalry available from age 2. Low hp and low multiplier vs cavalry—does benefit from the “steel bolts” card increases its range, siege, and multiplier vs cavalry.

Lazarus Knights – 2 pop melee cavalry that is quickly trained but looses hp over time. May be temporarily healed.

Unique Buildings:

Magazine – Military building merging the depot and the artillery foundry—increases nearby units rate of fire.

Guardhouse – Military building merging the barracks and the outpost—increases nearby units HP.

Commandry – Administrative and military building which trains your natural cavalry and increases nearby building workrate (can also shoot and garrison units).

Hospital – Healing and military building which trains your Hospitallers and Lazarus knights (with a card)—heals nearby units slowly and has unique healing upgrades (can also garrison vills to heal them).

Unique Cards:

“British Tongue”. Age 2, 450 wood, ships 6 pikemen, 6 crossbowmen, and 1 Chevelier (as well as the commandry).

“German Tongue”. Age 2, 450 wood, ships 6 sentinels and 1 Hospitaller (as well as the commandry).

“Spanish Tongue”. Age 3, 750 wood, ships 14 Sentinels, and 1 Chevalier (as well as the commandry).

“Italian Tongue”. Age 3, 750 wood, ships 3 Order galleys and 3 Hospitallers (as well as the commandry).

“French tongue”. Age 4, 1000 wood, ships 5 Falconet and 1 Chevelier (as well as 3 commanderies and +3 build limit to showcase the three French tongues).

“Portuguese Tongue”. Age 4, 1000 wood, ships 14 Cranequiniers and 1 Chevelier (as well as the commandry).

“Russian Resettlement”. Age 4, 2000 coin, increases Commandry build limit by +7 (this is mostly for late game style games for people who don’t want to ship 6 cards just to get to that higher build limit. But it wouldn’t be used much in comp because it’s 2000 Coin).

“Trumps”. Age 3, gives your fire throwers and guard houses a charged close range attack.

“Sea Devils” Age 4, grants sentinels more range, speed, siege, and a bonus against villagers.

“Wall guns” (removed). I couldn’t think of any bonus that would be fun or good enough (without being busted) to warrant this generic weapon being a unique card.

“Wignacourt Towers”. Age 2, costs 200 coin, ships 2 Guardhouse wagons and grants Guardhouses +4 LOS (Increases Guardhouse build limit by 2).

“Lascaris Towers” Age 3, costs 300 coin, ships 3 Guardhouse wagons and reduces their cost (increases build limit by +2).

“De Redin Towers” Age 4, costs 400 coin, ships 4 Guardhouse wagons and enables the training of Falconets and Fire throwers from them.

“Auberges” Age 1, commandries now grant 10 population space. Also decreases the cost of tongue cards.

“Gunpowder Mills” Ships 2 construction wagons which can transform into Mills, Magazines, or Arsenals. Grants all three the “self-destruct” ability.

“Saint Elmo’s pay” Grants Guardhouses a Big Button ability, which enables the throwing of fiery hoops that burn and instill fear in the enemy.

“Rapiers” Grants Pikemen, Crossbowmen, Sentinels, and Hospitallers a new Rapier stance which sets them to a hand attack that is 20% better than their standard melee damage, but with no multipliers.

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