Mangonels deleted from what?

Now that Mangonels are deleted from the game (4 games didnt even see 1 made lol) what BROKEN OP unit is taking its place?
Im seeing a lot more crossbows and Hand Cannoneer. If China I’m seeing mass NOB hitting the field. Some bombards late game but not like before. Seeing more [Ribauldequin] for French and English(there range is bad, NOB far better) but there easy to counter with Springalds.
Not really seeing a mass of 1 unit besides knights/ crossbowmen in team games.

Do you think the Mangonel nerf was to much? No 1 makes any now lol. Mabe its cost should be reduced because its weaker now?

Well seeing that NOB and bombards were a bigger problem then mangonels I don’t see why they nerfed them to the ground and didn’t nerf the bombards as much

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Nob are worse because of RANGE and speed.
Mangonels could just sit way back in mass and just delete any light armored units on the field and run away if charged. In mass they didnt even need a blocker/meat shield. Could just auto attack for a win. They could be countered by pros using insane micro skills but most players couldn’t do this. Most players just A attack move lol.

NOB has to get a lot closer giving springles and Cav counters a change. Also it has a lot less health.
Bombards are in a good place right now I think. There a anti building/wall unit and do the role well. They can do damage to units but because of there high cost there’s normally not enough of them to kill a whole army.
Bombards are more balanced because they dont kill a whole army in 2 shots.

I think the basic truth is that the balance concept with siege has been off since the beginning, and it has taken massive balance changes to get to the status quo which still feels quite unsatisfactory.

The mangonel nerf was necessary. I’d be okay with it being given a bit of radius back, but we’re closer to the right place than before.

The main issue with the mangonel situation before was that the threat of mangonels forced you to build mass counter siege, and in practice the only effective counter siege is springalds. And of course when you have the best counter to a type of unit being that type of unit that lead to a ridiculous meta that focused on your ability to destroy their springalds before they destroyed your springalds so that you could destroy their mangonels before they destroyed everything.

The springald has in a sense always been the problem with siege. A unit class that is best countered by an example of itself is an oddity, and a unit that is best countered by itself is deeply questionable RTS balance in my opinion. It’s a big thing to suggest that a unit should be removed… but while I can easily state what the benefit of the mangonel is to Age of Empires IV I can’t do the same for the springald.

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It might be worth to wait a few weeks to come to a conclusion, but If mangonel nerf is too much and massed ranged units become a problem it may be worth it to just increase their damage against ranged units only while leaving current base and area damage as it is!

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A radius of 1.00x would be better than current 0.75. Because with spread formation now archers can easily kill mangonels. Also nested bees were not nerfed which also makes less sense. The reason why nested bees were not too much of an issue because they deal damage in duration so cav could get in range while they were firing but worked well against infantry. Not to mention nested bees are faster and can retreat.

Except for chinese bombard and grenadier I don’t think siege needs changes. Chinese bombard can literally counter your springalds mass. Since they have high HP villagers can instantly heal bombard back and you have lost your springalds. I think a range of 11 would be more valid.

Lets not talk about grenadier. Nothing counters them.

Mangonels are still an issue. just lost a 4v4 guy had 10 and still owned my team mates army. They need more nerfs.
But really they are still strong just people think nerf and dont make them. ONLY thing that changed is now you need Bombards massed with them and or NOB

Im back to massing them bad boys as French. After you get about 5 there pretty good still and there super long range is still in. Springles are killed pretty easy. there far to weak in health.
Springles cost should be reduced. After killing there siege there dead weight and useless. Up there damage a bit vers units or something. No im not joking.

I agree with your springalds change. It isn’t the old springalds. Why did they increase its cost? Now it has become a soft counter to siege especially bombards. Its funny that Chinese bombards are cost effective counter to springalds.

A radius of 1.00x would be better than current 0.75. Because with spread formation now archers can easily kill mangonels.

But if your archers are in spread formation, doesn’t that make them more vulnerable to other units (like Horsemen or Knights)? If so, then the Mangonel does it’s job simply by forcing the reaction to spread formation.

It doesn’t have to single-handedly kill the archers to be effective. All it needs to do is make those massed archers more vulnerable. If it actually works out this way then I’m happy since it means more unit combos and not just ‘duh…mangonel squash archer’ :wink:

Nope it doesn’t. Losing a mangonel vs losing some archer? Of-corse your mangonel is more costly. You won’t have enough horsemen to clean-up when you are investing in siege. Also who is stupid enough to just have archers mass with no spears.

Hey you can do X along with your mangonel that will cost me far more resources than his army then whats the point of making a mangonel? Also If you do X then your enemy can also do Y to counter your push. The point is your mangonel is doing nothing.

I don’t remember the match. But you can watch recent matches and most pros will just spread archers and kill mangonel.