So i havent used mongols in about 2 months, been hammering away at using everyone else’s CA. Played mongols today, and remembered how fluid mangudai are, like “now this is how stutter free CA are supposed to work”
I wish the devs would just fix CA’s freaking broken stuttering already…
Having less delay between attacks makes them easier to micro. What makes them even easier to micro than that is having a faster attack rate, meaning that you don’t have to wait as long before attacking while micromanaging them. It also means you’re less likely to waste time with over-micro.
Mangudai are not a fair 1-1 comparison to cavalry archers. If you wanted to make an honest point, you’d compare them to Mongol Cavalry Archers which have (closer to) the same ROF as Mangudai. That’s not what you’re trying to do, unfortunately, so I’m forced to make the point that you’ll casually ignore to further your argument.
I do know exactly what you’re trying to do. You’re still trying to make the argument that the CA needs to be buffed unilaterally because you don’t like the feel of them despite them being incredibly potent in later phases of the game. In this case, you’re comparing two unlike terms and ignoring what makes them unlike in order to further that narrative and I’m having no part in it.
The Mangudai is one of the strongest units in the entire game and while it’s nice to have the frame delay, having a higher attack rate, higher base damage, higher base accuracy, and an innate bonus damage against one of the Cavalry Archer’s chief nemeses tramples any reasonable comparison.
There are good arguments being made to nerf this unit and the idea that you’d compare it so nonchalantly is a disservice to the Cavalry Archer.
Man, can we cut down on the snarky?
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While I can hardly stand using normal CA, I personally have more concern about them becoming OP monsters. I guess I just dont love CA play and so am biased.
I agree their are too uncomfortable to micro. I would rather have them nerfed but with smaller frame delay than strong but clunky.
They being kind of weak before late game doesn’t bother me as much as how frustrating it is to micro them.
looks like people disagree with you. gotta make your point to everybody, tough luck!
ca definitely need frame delay buff
It’s the same exact people making a new thread every three days.
People are stubborn.
you sure you not describing yourself with that? lmao
also in regards to same people making new thread, I dont see that many repeated ones, especially OP that implies many different people see it as a needed change. besides, as long as they are making sound argument then it is good. unlike some individual, such as parthan making ridiculous one like 400w trash scorpion unit.
Huns change thread was a buff CA thread in disguise
Frame delay thread was an openly buff ca thread
Mangudai thread is a complain about how CA isn’t as good as Mangudai.
Many people can be wrong. In this case, they are. I’ve explained this over three threads. Stay on topic.
Meanwhile even the pros feel the Cav Archer isn’t good right now. but i guess we should all bow to your wisdom!
12 minutes 30 seconds.
Nah. You should make a point besides “Waah! Cavalry Archers so expansive and no good immediately from archery range without upgrades! Waah!” so I actually have an argument to contend with.
My “wisdom” is the capability to create, and defend, an argument. I’m sorry you lack that. Don’t get angry at me because you don’t have the same ability.
No context as to “why” they’re bad. The “why” is way, way more important than the “what” because if you can explain it, it shows that you aren’t full of it.
your wisdom is disagreeing with even the pros, food for thought - i agree they get better with upgrades, but they are still held back by their insane frame delay. for a unit which is supposed to be all about hit and run tactics to have a FD 3 times longer then a normal archer is absurd.
i was genuinely satisfied with using mangudai and their smooth response time. like kipchaks feel crazy to use with their instant response time, like playing an arcade game if that makes sense?
but it just feels like using mangudai and how they respond, is how i would imagine a cavalry archer should respond, aka a fast, ranged unit in most other games would have a good response time to make them enjoyable to use. obviously if every CA was as strong as the mangudai there would need to be ways to snare em or whatever to balance the game.
And I’ve been on this exact tangent literally five times now, hopefully you’ll get the point by now, but the frame delay is a necessary restraint to make Mangonels effective counters to them. Without the frame delay, Mangonels will be extremely vulnerable to even light micro with CA. The speed, complimented by the range, makes a deadly combination. If we want to take an attack off of the CA, I’d be okay with chopping the frame delay down significantly because at that point they won’t have the damage to threaten Mangonels as easily. Want to do that? I’ll support that if that’s what you want.
But I don’t think that’s what you want. I don’t think you’re here to solve a problem. I think you’re here to make a new one and you refuse to grapple with the reasons why. You don’t like the way they feel and you’re willing to obliterate the current unit balance to suit yourself. I. disagree with that.
“Durr, frame delay makes units worse to micro” Are you literally ever going to stop observing the painfully obvious and calling it an argument? “Durr, melee units can’t attack ranged units at range” is not an argument to buff Champions, it’s an observation so painfully obvious that hearing it every four posts as an argument is ridiculous. That’s the “frame delay makes them hard to micro” statement in a nutshell.
back to the same argument “why they must be buffed”. you should explain why they shouldn’t be buffed first and explain why they are fine. until then I don’t see the need to explain further, so far it seems it’s just your opinion, which really means nothing to those who want to see it buffed.
They shouldn’t be buffed because they’ve been good, if not great, for a decade with no changes.
There is nothing that’s changed about the unit since they dominated the meta. The only thing that’s changed, according to all sources, is the perception of the unit. That’s not a good reason to buff a well-balanced unit from all evidence.
Someone needs to explain in clear-cut examples what’s changed around them as to make the argument that they aren’t as good even though they haven’t been changed since to justify any adjustments. Do you want me to explain ten years of Huns mirrors to make that point?
I disagree.
Teutonic knight haven’t been changed at all till now receives a buff, due to the reason everything else got buffed. the same simple reason would and should apply to Cav archer, just to a lesser extent.
Yeah, but Teutonic Knights have never been the go-to option in the meta, and they aren’t now after the buffs. You could easily argue that the buffs were seriously overdue.
CA’s in their current state have been meta for at least a decade. They didn’t need a buff then and they haven’t been changed since then. It is, therefore, up to you (and anyone making the claim that they need a buff) to prove that something has changed to make them worse in spite of their total lack of changes since then. They haven’t been nerfed since they ruled the meta. If you can’t explain how they’ve gotten worse since being the staple, despite no changes, they shouldn’t be changed.
why would you need a unit to be a meta to buff it?
infact, meta comes from being most efficient so as rare as TK is used, it is still THE meta when its the best option, just in rare circumstance. again your argument is full of holes.
You’ve got it backwards.
CA were dominant for a decade. They were “meta”. If you can’t tell me why they need a buff since nothing has changed since being dominant, then they don’t need a change. It’s not complicated.