Maori Civilization Concept

[SirBarnzy1]

@SalarAdin

“largely isolated from the rest of the world until the late 1700s.”

I will sound a bit harsh, but you just state in your introduction the main reason this civ should NOT be added into the game (at least as a playable civ).

• minor interaction with the world
• completely out of the time frame (you even suggest a second half of the 19th century leader?? wtf)

The 16th-18th century period is full of interesting and unrepresented civ that could fit so we’ll in the game. But the Maori is not part of that group. Let’s keep that for another game.

Interesting and under presented is a selling point for Maori and Polynesians as a whole.
While I totally get the point of view about them being isolated for up to midway or so on the AOE3 timeframe, I think as long as they did have history within and provide something unique then it passes for me

USA and Mexico only exist as nations in the later part of the 18th century onwards, Aztec exist as a (relatively) unified power in the 16th century, and Japan is rather isolated for a lot of the timeframe - with that mind, Polynesian civs, who come to international attention late 18th century and of course having conflict and trade with other tribes/islands/ groups before Westerners were in contact couple with being a culturally distinct and cohesive set of civs is fair justification.

[M00Z1LLA]

@SalarAdin

“largely isolated from the rest of the world until the late 1700s.”

I will sound a bit harsh, but you just state in your introduction the main reason this civ should NOT be added into the game (at least as a playable civ).

• minor interaction with the world
• completely out of the time frame (you even suggest a second half of the 19th century leader?? wtf)

You know everything you just said also applies to Lakota? In both cases they still very much existed since the 1500s and have a history of inter tribal conflicts that they can be based on before their first contact with Europeans in 1642. The same can’t be said for Mexico and USA who straight up didn’t exist until the late 1700s.

[M00Z1LLA]

While this post is active, I’d like to amend the role of the Carronade to better cohere with its historical role. I had initially made it longer range than Falconets so that it could be a generalist artillery unit for civs like Haida/Tlingit and Hawaiians. However, they were actually more specialized for short range and should reflect that. Being a generalist unit is also not needed since the long range siege and anti-artillery roles can be covered by Tipao for the Maori, and Swivel Guns for Hawaiians and Haida/Tlingit.

@M00Z1LLA

Carronade

Carronades should still be available, but need some alterations to their stats to fit in better with Swivel Guns and better reflect their historical use. Carronades functioned as short range anti-personnel weapons so they definitely should not outrange Falconets. Instead, they could have lower base damage, but a higher AoE and infantry multiplier. These guns would have been the primary armament of merchant vessels and would not have been traded to the natives. Therefore, they would have been obtained through the salvage of captured ships. To reflect this, Carronades could have a makeshift chassis of lashed together logs and be carried around like a Mortar.

[Bleed]

@M00Z1LLA

For Hawaiian cavalry, I’d probably limit them to a shock infantry unit for heavy cavalry since they wouldn’t have had horses until later in the time period. But I’d give them Carbine Cavalry for the light cavalry role and maybe some Paniolo cowboys.

I mean, we have photographic evidence of Hawaiian cavalrymen equipped like Napoleonic hussars were. They wore French uniforms, Italian uniforms (from the Risorgimento period), and American ones, and all these civs have Hussars in game, even if the US Army only ever had National Guard (Benton and 3rd NJ) units designated as Hussars. So the civ would need to have proper hand cavalry regardless.

Then there’s that royal guard cavalry unit, the Leleiohoku, which was TECHNICALLY a militia formation, but should probably be the Hawaiian dragoon equivalent. The Paniolo could be a rare outlaw that only shows up in Hawaii maps, but can be shipped a couple of times by Hawaiians, Spanish (introduced horses to the Islands), and Portuguese (only significant white immigrant group besides Americans). Unless you’re giving the USA some kind of Mark Twain card in this scenario that ships a number of Zouaves (Twain records that at least one regiment of Native Hawaiians fought in the ACW as Zouaves in uniforms with red trim…just like in the shipment icon) and Paniolo in the Industrial Age.

What you CAN do if you want a Polynesian general purpose shock infantry unit is to give them a Lancer-type shock infantry, called the Pua’a Runner. Or something else. Call back to the tradition that various Polynesian ethnicities have of hunting wild boar in the hills with only spear and knife. Plus the fact that even well into the 1800s, high-ranked chiefs would frequently employ runners to send messages on foot instead of by horse or by telegram, like if they wanted a specific type of fish for dinner. There’s a good culturally shared unit right there!

Your stone club runner unit for Maori is great. Awesome idea. Love it.

[M00Z1LLA]

@Bleed

I mean, we have photographic evidence of Hawaiian cavalrymen equipped like Napoleonic hussars were. They wore French uniforms, Italian uniforms (from the Risorgimento period), and American ones, and all these civs have Hussars in game, even if the US Army only ever had National Guard (Benton and 3rd NJ) units designated as Hussars. So the civ would need to have proper hand cavalry regardless.

I’m assuming you mean this?

Just because they have swords doesn’t mean they have to be melee cavalry. Dragoons and such use a sword in melee mode. From what I’ve seen, their cavalry would have been general purpose since it got rolled into the Honolulu Rifles. The best representative of this would be Carbine Cavalry which is rather modern, and shows their connection to the American civ. They didn’t form cavalry units until the late 1800s, so it would be strange to see something like Hussars available in age 2, while age 3 Carbine Cavalry is a bit more reasonable. Some sort of shock infantry for the melee cav role would simply fit the timeline much better.

@Bleed

What you CAN do if you want a Polynesian general purpose shock infantry unit is to give them a Lancer-type shock infantry, called the Pua’a Runner. Or something else. Call back to the tradition that various Polynesian ethnicities have of hunting wild boar in the hills with only spear and knife. Plus the fact that even well into the 1800s, high-ranked chiefs would frequently employ runners to send messages on foot instead of by horse or by telegram, like if they wanted a specific type of fish for dinner. There’s a good culturally shared unit right there!

I don’t think there needs to be a shared Polynesian shock infantry unit, Maori and Hawaiians can have their own unique roster. I also wouldn’t make a shock infantry unit with a lance or spear since that’s way too easy to confuse with pikemen units. For Hawaiians, a warrior armed with a leiomano could be a good candidate for a shock infantry unit.