I created a map that shows almost every civilization that is not in the game. I tried to be unbiased so I included many controversial civs such as Mississippians, Tongans, Iroquois and many new European civs. I tried to make the map as accurate as possible, but there might be some inaccuracies. Keep in mind many civs have overlapping territories.
Khitans on the map are the Qara Khitai Empire, the Liao Empire didn’t fit the map due to overlapping with Gokturks and Jurchen
Siamese are both Thais and Laotians
Moluccans, Visayans and Malagasy are umbrella civs
Armenians founded a kingdom in Anatolia
Kikongo Kingdom wasn’t this big, the map shows many Kongolese kingdoms together
Somalis are Adal, Ajuran, many city states and a small area of desert, hence this big
Well, it’s impossible to fit just every single possible civ on a map as they are virtually limitless, but congratulations, this is quite a good job.
I’m surprised to see the Kashmiris extend so far east. Did they really cover such a huge territory?
Do we even know anything about the history of noth America and Oceania in the aoe2 timeframe? How to make campaigns and leader names for the ai?
Also I think tribes that never left Stone age are better fitting aoe3 as natives. Them having castles doesn’t make sense in my opinion.
I proposed the Deganawida campaign for the Haudenosaunee based on the song of Hiawatha (1534-1570) and over Oceania you can do a campaign of the Tongan king Momo (c. 1200)…
And about the IA,well you can use 15 names:
For the Haudenosaunee you can use:
Deganawida (protagonist of the campaign and founder of the Haudenosaunee Confederation)
Hiawatha (narrator of the camapign and Haudenosaunee IA in 3 DE)
Jigonsaseh (Mohawk Priestess and adoptive mother of Hiawatha)
Minnehaha (lover of Hiawatha)
Tadodaho (antagonist of the campaign)
Manabozho (Mohawk mythical hero of Hiawatha)
Mohawk Warchief (generical IA name)
Oneida Warchief (generical IA name)
Onondaga Warchief (generical IA name)
Cayuga Warchief (generical IA name)
Seneca Warchief (generical IA name)
Turcarora Warchief (generical IA name;the Tuscarora were related to the other tribes, although they did not join the confederation until 1722)…
Huron Warchief (generical IA name;the Hurons were at war with the Haudenosaunee Confederacy throughout the 17th century)
Erie Warchief (generical IA name)
Susquehannock Warchief (generical IA name)
And about the Tongans pfff… you have like 39 Tongan kings…
ʻAhoʻeitu – divine father, around 900 AD, resided first in Popua and then other places of the Hahake district, like Toloa near Fuaʻamotu.
Momo – married with Nua, the daughter of Loʻau, the Tuʻi Haʻamea. The Tongan maritime empire came into existence. Royal court in Heketā near Niutōua.
Tuʻitātui – around 1100 AD, extended the royal court, built the Haʻamonga; re-established the Fale Fā (house of four), royal counselors and guardians; his cunning stepbrother Fasiʻapule became a governor.
Talatama – shifted the residence to Lapaha; died without issue
Tuʻitonganui ko e Tamatou – said to have been a block of wood, standing in as child of Talatama and father of Talaihaʻapepe to keep the dynasty pure
Talaihaʻapepe – real brother of Talatama and supposed grandson through the woodblock
Talakaifaiki – around 1250; start of the decline of the Tongan maritime empire, lost Samoa due to his cruelty to the Mālietoa line
Takalaua – assassinated by Tamasia and Malofafa from ʻUvea and Futuna while taking his bath in the Tolopona stream at Alakifonua; a harsh ruler, start of political upheavals
Kauʻulufonua I – around 1470, pursued his father’s murderers from Tongatapu to ʻEua, Haʻapai, Vavaʻu, both Niuas, then Niue, Fiji, Samoa, finally arresting them at their home island of either ʻUvea or Futuna. Back at home in Muʻa he killed them in a savage spectacle (knocking out their teeth and then letting them chew kava), before he devoured them giving him the nickname fekai. He allowed his younger brother Moʻungāmotuʻ to found a new dynasty, the Tuʻi Haʻatakalaua, named after their father. This new dynasty would carry out the day-to-day duties of the Tuʻi Tonga with the people while the Tuʻi Tonga became sacred, king of kings like a god.
######## – kept away from Tonga by the Tuʻi Haʻatakalaua, lived in Samoa.
Puipuifatu – lived in Samoa, tried in vain to invade Vavaʻu to restore power to his dynasty
Tapuʻosi – was allowed to return to Muʻa, as apparently the Tuʻi Tonga line was now so weakened as to be of no threat to the Tuʻi Haʻatakalaua. From now on the Tuʻi Tonga functioned as a kind of high priest, taking care of all religious obligations (an honour and a burden), giving him a very elevated status, but no worldly power. But no Tuʻi Tonga was ever murdered anymore either.
Fatafehi – around 1600, married the Tuʻi Haʻatakalaua Moʻunga ʻo Tonga’s daughter, a custom which would last for some generations to come forming a permanent alliance between the two houses; his sister married a Fijian, changing the international orientation of Tonga from Samoa to Fiji. Was tattooed in Samoa by master tattooists in two sessions and received the nickname ############## (“Twice to Manuʻa”) in commemoration of these rituals.
And well about the castles, they can have War Huts in the case of Hauds and Pa in the case of Tongans, which would be barracks but with a castle attack…
Let’s see.
There’s been a continuous Croatian state from 632 to 1102 (as a duchy then a kingdom) before it entered a personal union with Hungary, which means 470 years of political independance.
For the Albanians, the first medieval state is the relatively short lived principalty of Arbanon, 1190-1256, but it was fully independant from the Byzantine Empire and other local powers only from 1204 to 1216, so 12 years. We then have the Kingdom of Albania ruled by the Angevin dynasty from 1272 to 1368. A few Albanian principalties survived it and organized as the League of Lezhë in 1444, but from what I could gather the last independant states were conquered in 1479. So including the times with small disorganized principalties competing with each other, we reach 219 years with independant Albanian states.
Could you tell me more about how the time spent under foreign occupation with relative autonomy put the Croatians at the disadvantage but not the Albanians?
Im no history expert but wiki says below so how long were they independent?
Croatia was elevated to the status of kingdom somewhere around 925. Tomislav was the first Croatian ruler whom the papal chancellery honoured with the title "king
The date the Haudenosaunee Confederacy was formed is unknown, but it is generally estimated to be between 1400 and 1600. When French explorer Samuel de Champlain was in New France in 1622, he learned that the Iroquois League had been at war with the Hurons and Algonquins for ages half a century, so the Confederation must have formed at least in 1570 according to his calculations, a widely accepted date. On the other hand, archaeologists consider that it must have happened before the arrival of Christopher Columbus. Some historians have proposed that it happened around 1142, the year in which a solar eclipse was seen throughout the territory of the Senecas, this phenomenon is the one that best It would fit with what happened when the League was founded, according to the oral tradition, and some lineages go back even further, to 1090.(This is about the chronological viability of the civ, that is, if it can fit into AoE 2 DE chronology)
According to legends, an old woman left her village with her daughter to live in peace. In the forest the young woman became pregnant without knowing a man and thus Deganawida was born, who was later known as the Great Peacemaker. The grandmother had a vision of the Creator announcing that her grandson would bring the end of her people, the Hurons, so she tried to kill him several times in childhood but supernatural forces protected him. Growing up he left and met Jigonhsasee, a wise woman who gave food and shelter to wounded warriors from all tribes and convinced him to talk peace with them. Deganawida later traveled with the Mohawks, who adopted him for his wisdom. Among these he met Hiawatha, a warrior chief of the Onondaga, who tried three times to convince his tribe to find a way to end the endless endemic war. But a cursed sorcerer, Tadadaho, used his arts to attack him and kill his two daughters and his wife, one for each attempt. Hiawatha did not try to take revenge, he went with the Mohawks and there he met Deganawida. Together they convinced that tribe to seek peace. Then they went to the Oneida, who took a year to be convinced to join the project. Later they continued with the Onondaga, but they were controlled by Tadadaho and refused, so they went with the Cayuga and obtained a better result. Later they joined the Seneca by singing a hymn. Finally, they returned with Tadadaho and through Jigonhsasee’s potions they freed him from his curse and he accepted that the Onondaga joined the League.(This is what the campaign would be about)
The first white man to visit them was the French explorer Jacques Cartier, who in 1534 arrived at the Stadakoné camp and kidnapped the chief’s two sons to take them to France. In 1535 he returned them and reached the Mohawk village of Hochelaga, which he named La Chine. He was also the first to bring diseases, to recruit Indians by force and to carry out violent behavior. In August 1541, a French expedition with 500 settlers seeking to conquer the territory, was forced to establish a fortified colony due to the resistance of the Iroquois, the fort was named ################### on the site of the current Cap-Royal; Rouge district in Quebec. A second fort was built on a cliff overlooking the colony, to improve its protection. When Cartier returned to Quebec he found the colony fighting the Iroquois for its survival. In June 1542, 3 French ships arrived with 200 more settlers. After a year, the colony was frustrated in its attempts to conquer, especially due to the hostility of the Iroquois natives who, with their continuous attacks, led the settlers to despair, which led to the end of 1543 when the French decided to escape from the colony. Iroquois siege and return to France. The precise location of that colony was a mystery to historians because it was destroyed by the Iroquois, until archaeologists discovered its remains in 2006, including a plate that likely belonged to Sieur de Roberval, second governor of New France.(This is about whether there could be European civs in the campaign)
(After this is already in the AoE 3 timeline exclusively)
When the French returned in 1603 Champlain arrived at Hochelaga and Stadakoné found it empty, and the Iroquois had disappeared, the product of an Iroquois-Algonquin war that had occurred in the interim. Some Algonquins say they lived in peace with the Iroquois at Hochelaga and may even have absorbed some of them. The Iroquois version is significantly different and tells of an earlier time before they united under the Iroquois League when the Algonquins dominated the badly divided Iroquois and forced them to pay tribute. This situation changed with the formation of the League, and after 50 years of warfare, the Iroquois were driven out to the Adirondacks and their allies from the Adirondack Mountains and upper Hudson Valley.
In 1609 and 1615 they were attacked by Champlain with the help of the Hurons, Montagnais, and Ottawas, and 200 Mohawks were shot dead, for which reason they fell out again with the French and since then they sought help from the Dutch first (1644) and then the British, who exchanged beaver skins for firearms. Thus, the Mohawks helped the ######### ########### the escaped Pequots from Sassacus, while driving the Mohicans to the Hudson River and subduing the Munsee. This being the case, in 1656 the French Jesuit René Menard visited the Cayuga, since a mission had existed in Kahnawake since 1640. At that time, the main Seneca villages were Kandagaio (St. Jacques, New York), Sonnontouan or Tiohihakton (Conception, New York), Gandougarae (St. Michel) for Huron prisoners and Gandachiragon (St. Jean) with neutral prisoners, destroyed between 1655 and 1687 by J.R. Bresay, Marquis de Denonville. The main Mohawk villages were found in present-day Saratoga, Ticonderoga, Canajoharie, and Oreonta, numbering about 180 houses and 500 families. In order not to decline demographically, in 1640 they decided to incorporate en masse their enemies, the Hurons (about 10,000) to merge into a single town all of a sudden, diplomatically. From 1642 to 1653 they declared the Beaver Wars against the Hurons in order to expand the fur trade, ending with the extermination of both the beaver and most of the Hurons and the small Iroquois tribes of the Great Lakes; then they had 16,000 warriors, and in 1643 the Mohawks blocked the trade corridor to Montreal.
In addition, the fur trade with the Dutch would cause an unprecedented ecological disaster in the area, since between 1648 and 1649 the Iroquois invaded Huron territory because they had already been exterminated in theirs. In March 1649, a thousand Mohawk warriors marched on Saint Ignace and Saint Louis, Christianized Huron towns, and burned the priest Jean Le Brebeuf. The subsequent disbandment of the Hurons happens that part of them joined the Iroquois.
In 1644 the French King Louis XIV probably exterminated it, but the order was not very effective. The same year they renewed the two-tiered pact or Wampum, which they had signed with the Dutch, with Great Britain. When in 1687 the French attacked and destroyed the Seneca fields at Niagara, they retaliated by destroying the fortifications and colonies west of Montreal. They maintained a lot of diplomacy with a very metaphorical language, with expressions such as burying the hatchet, or chain of friendship (symbol of the strength of ties).
Of course, with the Croats they can put a civ that goes from 632 to 1102 and a campaign in the 10th or 11th centuries like Tomislav and with the Albanians they can put a civ that goes from 1170 to 1479 and there you put a campaign with Skanderbeg in the 15th century.
As I said in my post, they were first an independant duchy before becoming a kingdom. If you suddenly change the goal post to “Only states which are formally refered to as kingdoms count” (which is quite the ridiculous requirement considering some of the civs already in game don’t fit this arbitrary requirement), we have 177 years… Which is 71 years longer than the Kingdom of Albania. So unless for some reason we have to take into account all Albanian principalties but not the duchy of Croatia, you need to find another metric to give the Albanians some form of priority over the Croatians.
The Spanish civ is supposed to cover all the Medieval kingdoms of Spain that ended up joining to form the Spanish Monarchy at the end of the Middle Ages. The campaign for them example is based on the life of El Cid, a Castillian knight who lived during the 11th Century.
And the same can be said for other civilizations in the game. Many are umbrella terms to cover several political entities.
Arakanese, Ryukyuans and Albanians were considered, but they weren’t independent enough. Civs that didn’t form even a city state such as Kurds or Ainus won’t be added.
Noted. Zapotecs were strong in the 5-7th centuries while Mixtecs in the rest.
Nicely done, maybe replacing Papuans with Moluccans would be better, cause I’m not sure if the Papuans built any known kingdoms or states during the AOE 2 period, the Moluccans at least had the Sultanate of Ternate. Other than that, great work!
Wari and Tiwanaku probably way more relevant than Chancas whose main claim to fame is mostly just that they were the last territory annexed into the Inca Empire.
The Tamoio Confederation in the coast of Brazil fits within the timeframe.
The Kuikuro in the Amazon who were the… the people who gave the Amazon its name.
The Chincha people introduced metalworking into Great Nicoya in Central America who in turn introduced it to the Mixtecs (who are in your chart, fortunately.)
Teotihuacan is super, super important to not include since it basically shaped the politics of Mesoamerica until the arrival of the Spanish, even if they veer a tad bit too early.
Anasazi most likely worth a slot too. Maybe something in the Caribbean, even Caribs themselves or Taino.
I could go on all day, but this should fill the Americas some more.
That’s quite interesting, I didn’t know about this one. Then a Kashmiri civ could be quite the interesting addition, it’s probably the only ###### civ which could make it into the game.
Other civs which I think could make interesting additions include the Flemish, Jolofs, Pechenegues, Avars, Azerbaijanis, Afghans, Telugus, Balochis, Khurds, Gokturks, possibly Shans and Laos, and probably a Saracen split with at the very least the Bedouins (representing the non Yemeni Arabic civs in the Arab peninsula) and Levantines (representing the Syrians, Iraqis and possibly Egyptians). I don’t think we could fit everyone, though.
