March PUP Suggestion: Dutch Infantry Combat affect all infantry

With the PUP, Dutch players were treated to new cards which finally acknowledge their natural gameplay benefit towards coin units like mercenaries and outlaws (buckriders and Dutch States Army). Given how well dutch already perform in Supremacy, but how poor they perform in Treaty (currently ranked bottom 3 in treaty), it appears these cards were intended more for treaty play, though being Age 2 and Age 3 cards, they could be used in supremacy (more on that later).

Dutch States Army in particular is a very interesting card that makes mercenaries train faster and also enables Highlanders and Royal Horsemen from the barracks and stables. However, the regular dutch units are more expensive. The cost increase is actually very bad for the dutch who already struggle in late game eco. What makes matters worse is that none of the infantry cards besides the team HP card affect the mercenaries of the dutch. This leaves the highlander as rather underwhelming as a musk per pop. Royal Horsemen already benefit from Dutch Cavalry combat, so to match The Dutch Infantry Combat card should be changed to affect all infantry.

This will give the Highlander another 60 HP and 10 damage in the Imperial age, which raises their HP per pop from 350 to 380 and their damage per pop from 51.5 to 56. This places them more inline with other musketeers. This will also benefit the dutch natives gameplay and give them more options in general, this will make the card more viable for dutch treaty play.

As I do not think this card should be used in Supremacy play I suggest moving Dutch States Army and the buckriders card both to Age 4 as I feel mercenaries are very strong in pre age 4 play.

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Or like Germans and Swedes they can have mercenary combat.

That would be nonsensical. A Merc combat card would further buff their royal horsemen and other mercs. They really only need the highlanders to be stronger. Also there’s no point in adding another card for the dutch. Too much card investment. Also the aforementioned Cavalry Combat already affects all cavalry including mercs. Changing Infantry Combat to be the same but for infantry should have been done back in DE first launched.

Also it’s worth noting that before the rework, Haudenosaunee infantry cards worked this way and buffed all infantry which was intended to give them strong Native units.

So? I don’t think that’s problematic to give dutch mercenary combat.
It is a shame that Haud’s combat cards were reworked though.

You don’t seem to understand.

Making their infantry combat a general all infantry card fixes highlanders.

Adding a mercenary combat card would not be needed. They don’t need one. Adding another card is not needed. Card bloat is a thing. Too many cards is a problem. Changing the infantry combat card is simpler, affects a wider array of issues that the dutch have and prevents overbuffing mercenary cavalry.


Infantry combat would also affect all merc units as well and would effectively mean that dutch has merc combat

since dutch already has universal cav combat
universal infantry combat would mean that dutch can boost all non artillery merc by 15%


I do understand, but why should Highlanders get special treatment.

Yeah making infantry combat would make things simpler but it’s not like cavalry combat is especially good since a lot of civs have generic cavalry combat.

Ruyters despite being RG units aren’t affected by many cards just cavalry combat.
That’s okay, though Germany doesn’t get many cards for needle gunners either, but they’ve got many for doppelsoldners instead. Since dutch get a lot of coin wouldn’t it make sense for them to instead focus on mercenaries and get mercenary combat.

Besides No civ has universal cav combat and universal infantry combat.

You’re completely incorrect.

Italy has universal infantry HP and cav combat.

British have 3 universal cav combat cards

Almost every card for the Spanish is universal.

And USA has universal heavy infantry combat and universal rifle infantry combat.

I think he meant universal combat (15% HP and atk) for both infantry and cav, which no civs have

You can have one or some HP cards but not both

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You mean absolutely correct
Italy doesn’t have universal infantry combat, just HP.
British don’t have any universal infantry cards just musketeer/grenadier hp
Spanish don’t have universal cards for their gunpowder infantry or ranged cavalry.

Haudenosaunee pre rework had universal infantry and cav combat

Also Spanish cav combat affects their ranged cavalry. And Spanish pennisula guerillas card affects all ranged infantry.

Haud don’t have cav combat, only hp and att
ack so you needed to send 2 cards for same affect as cav combat from other civs with cav combat.

Only attack not HP and it’s in Age 4, It’s so those that use musk and skirmishers don’t completely fall behind in treaty games otherwise it’s pretty bad.

In short no civ has 2 cards alone that give all infantry and cavalry +15% hp.

Okay, your argument is pointless though. Adding a merc combat card would be stupid because it would buff royal horsemen too and then royal horsemen would have a 30% HP/atk boost that would be like TAD gendarmes all over again. For the Dutch there is no reason to not make their infantry combat universal.

It wouldn’t be like TAD genarmes too expensive even for a coin focused civ.

FE can always change the mercenaries you get though.

If it really turns out to be an issue, why not just add Highlanders to the inf attack card? Or add 15% attack for them on the states army card.

I agree with that, Dutch need a slightly better army late game. Almost all their combat cards are specific to their units. Il you want to play a mercenary build, you only have 1 cards (Dutch States Army).

Just need to make Infantry combat for all dutch units and not just specific one

Dutch royal horsemen already train instantly. in PUP. and the highlander have a decent train time too.

I see dutch becoming more of a cav civ

Dutch Royal Horsemen are not very good compared to Imperial Gendarme for example.
Even with the HP buff

I just tested against mohout, in equal pop its a 50/50 chance.

but even if there are 1 or 2 more royal horsemen, >99.99% royal horsemen wins.

That too the royal horsemen have instant train time.