Thank you! And understandable. I tried basing alot of the imperial architecture on this Gable-roof Iroquois aesthetic. (As well as the tall-slit windows in the first picture)
It also appears in the final Age in AOE3. I’m not sure how much this is influenced by European architecture, but I WAS able to find that Mississippians and other nearby woodland native nations (Like the Anishinabe/Council-of-Three-Fires) were using Gable-roof architecture pre-contact.
I do agree though, yeah, it could be seen as a little too European
Very unlikely to be added, although the Haudenosaunee settled in the area in 1142,the Haudenosaunee confederacy was created in 1580 and lasted until the American Revolutionary War… It fits for AoE 3, but not for AoE 2…maybe if they had a campaign that leads to the creation of the confederation, they would fit…
in mod db you have a mod of aoe 2 HD adapting some civs and period of aoe 3 in aoe 2, maybe someday something similar happens for the 2 DE if the Return of Rome succeed in sales…
These are the bonuses that Haud have in the mod:
Bonuses:
Villagers/fishing ships/etc gather from all “natural” resources (fish, berries, boars,…) 25% faster
All Iroquois buildings are built from wood only, but have 15% higher price
Iroquois villagers and native units have 15% higher health
Iroquois build longhouses instead of houses. They can be garissoned (3 units) and provide 10pop. However they cost 55% more than a house
UU
Mantlet - Anti building and anti infantry siege unit
shared special barracks line with other forest natives
UT
Kinship - Native units have increased HP and attack (20%) as well as attack and movement speed (10%) (Close bonds of the 5 tribes and the oral knowledge passed on)
War allies - Iroquois barracks receive 2 special units, gunpowder infantry (Alliances with French/English/Americans
@Zartusht I think I might have found something of an example for where the Haudenosaunee did apparently have artillery based from a discussion on Reddit.
A user by the name of Reedstilt chooses to mention a book called “Wars of the Iroquois” written by George T. Hunt, and according to this user the earliest example of the Haudenosaunee using artillery seems to be from somewhere around the 1640s where the Susquehannah traded with the nearby colony of New Sweden, existing from (1638-1655).
The civ bonuses seems to be extremely abusable and probably impossible to balance. (Insta building palisades is super cheese and would make other Tower Rush strats seem like a joke, reducing enemy line of sight just completely negating ranged units altogether.)
But obviously the real highlight here is the bset. The civ definitely seems worth doing and you’ve done a commendable effort into making the buildings both iroquoian looking and recognizable as their counterparts ingame. Something even official civs struggle with at times.
Hopefully, yeah! That would be pretty neat!
I do agree that the Iroquois, especially at their height, are more suited for AOE3. But I think an apt comparison could be saying that the British Empire is more suited for AOE3 than Medieval England
The bonuses for the mod seem interesting, the stronger and cheaper villagers reminds me of the Indian, Spanish, and Inca bonuses.
I’m not quite sure where you got the 1580 date, but the 1142 date is based on astronomy rather than settlement. I work in the field of Mesopotamian history and Eclipses have been extremely helpful and important when dating ancient events, as eclipses themselves were extremely important to pre-modern people generally. The Iroquois Confederacy was founded near Victor, New York during an eclipse. While early guesses put the date at June 28 1451, Iroquois tradition is specific about the time of day and year, being between noon and evening, and between July and September. (Mann and Fields) concluded that August 22 1142 was a much better contender than any later date. Researcher Bruce McClure and Journalist Toyacoyah Brown believe the even earlier date of August 18, 909 could be the Confederacy’s start.
lol very fair. Would a 50% increased wall-building speed be more reasonable?
Reducing the enemy LOS effect would not negate a unit’s attack range if the units can still automatically shoot at you, while the player themselves is unable to see what their unit is shooting at. Would that be interesting or terrible? lol
You are welcome!
And yes that seems to be the case if they are going to have access to cannons. Instead of just giving them the [Bombard Cannon] the Haudenosaunee could instead have a unique artillery piece that is similar to the [Light Cannon] from [Age of Empires 3] to a certain extent.
This artillery unit can be named [Portable Cannon] and will be a weaker counterpart of the [Bombard Cannon] in terms of firepower but could be cheaper.
The [Trebuchet] could also be replaced by a unit called the [Flare Archer], which is an idea that I came up with myself. Although the very concept for this unit isn’t exactly new since I took a lot of inspiration from the Aztec [Arrow Knight] in [Age of Empires 3].
Maybe the [Castle] building could instead be renamed to [Stronghold] when playing as any of the Native American civilisations in the game so that it has a less Euro specific name. The same could be done for other civilisations in the game who did not call their own fortified structures to be “Castles”.
I like the Flare archer idea alot! (as well as the canoe). What would you think about something like this as a regional pre-columbian substitute, as you mentioned in your linked that arrows as trebuchets may not seem as compatible?
And I don’t know about the portable cannon substitution, only because the Iroquois have so many other main areas of interest and potential UU to focus on.
I came up with a potential Iroquois siege unit for AoE3 based on the Skraeling “catapults” mentioned in the Viking sagas and the strong links between Lacrosse and war.
@Zartusht I am glad that you liked the [Flare Archer] unit concept that I came up with as a suggestion. Yeah as I stated in this post of mine, a Trebuchet would without a doubt be superior to the bow in terms of range in reality. But since the bow is probably the closest thing to a launcher to them for ejecting projectiles that could harm buildings from a distance realistically speaking, it would then probably be not that bad if there was a siege unit in the game that is armed with a bow that can shoot from an absurd range.
Ah the “Tīpao”, I came to first learn about it from @M00Z1LLA who suggested that it could serve as a siege unit for the Tongan Empire in the event that they were added to [Age of Empires 4]. The problem with the Tīpao is that it seems to have been a throwing device that was used by the Māori which was a Polynesian ethnic group. It would therefore be kind of awkward if the Pre-Columbian civilisations had access to it, unless they had enough of interaction with each other where it reached a point that the knowledge for this throwing device of the Māori was passed on to the Pre-Columbian societies or was adopted by them somehow through this Polynesian tribe.
I have seen this post of yours before on the [Age of Empires 3] forum section but I did also create a post back in July on this section of the forum, where I suggested that a new general unit called the [Staff Slinger] could be trained from [Siege Workshop] building and serve as an early siege unit during the Feudal Age.
A unit using a lacrosse stick could serve as a unique version for the [Staff Slinger]. Though a problem with the lacrosse stick is that it wasn’t really a weapon for warfare but a tool for a sport meant for settling tensions between tribes as stated by yourself.
I’d recommend the “Demon’s Head” as described in the Vinlandsaga which is a sort of very janky stone thrower.
Honestly I believe people worry too much about these things, I doubt 90% of the civs already ingame ever built anything resembling a Scorpion anyways.
By the time of contact with Europeans, lacrosse was primarily sport. However, what is described in the Viking sagas sounds very similar to a lacrosse stick, but it is being used as a weapon. I think it’s likely that what the Vikings described was some kind of staff sling and over time that weapon gradually transitioned into later lacrosse sticks. Or it may be possible that it was some type of proto-lacrosse stick that was being used as an improvised weapon.
In the case that you don’t happen to know about this, I managed to find information on the Wikipedia page for the Trebuchet that mentions about a siege weapon called the “Cheiromanganon” (The Hand-Trebuchet). It was apparently used by the troops of Nikephoros II Phokas around 965 CE and a similar hand trebuchet called the “Shoupao” was invented by someone by the name of Liu Yongxi and presented to the emperor in 1002 CE.
The Staff Sling was a component to the hand trebuchet which was operated through a lever mechanism by one person. It was basically a one-man traction trebuchet. Although more unlikely the Native Americans mentioned in the Viking sagas could have possibly used something like this than just a Staff Sling if the sphere that was launched from this pole of theirs was actually about the size of a sheep’s stomach.
I was hoping to get the Gable roof structures to more-so resemble the Native American architecture photos I’d posted a little bit ago Do the designs look too European, even compared to them?
Of course those cannons were received from the English (remember the Iroquois-English alliance thanks to Pocahontas) and during the Beaver Wars (Beaver Wars - Wikipedia) that’s why they have the light gun on aoe 3…
Of course… Everything is framed within its historical period and playing aoe 2 in the period of aoe 3 would help more people move to aoe 3 at least to try it …
The Peacemaker story of Iroquois tradition credits the formation of the confederacy, between 1570 and 1600, to Dekanawidah (the Peacemaker), born a Huron, who is said to have persuaded Hiawatha, an Onondaga living among Mohawks, to advance “peace, civil authority, righteousness, and the great law” as sanctions for confederation. Cemented mainly by their desire to stand together against invasion, the tribes united in a common council composed of clan and village chiefs; each tribe had one vote, and unanimity was required for decisions. Under the Great Law of Peace (Gayanesshagowa), the joint jurisdiction of 50 peace chiefs, known as sachems, or hodiyahnehsonh , embraced all civil affairs at the intertribal level.
c. 1570 the Confederation was established by The Great Peacemaker and Hiawatha following a peace treaty that united the five nations into a confederacy…
Leaders from five Iroquois nations (Cayuga, Mohawk, Oneida, Onondaga, and Seneca) assembled around Dekanawidah c. 1570, French engraving, early 18th century.
From Second Annual Report of the Bureau of Ethnology to the Secretary of the Smithsonian Institution, 1880-1881, edited by J.W. Powell, 1883
Yes, those dates are the only thing that could make it a medieval civilization…But we don’t know if they’re true…
Yes, it can be…In aoe 3 the castles are exclusive of the Asian civs, the Europeans have the forts (obviously of the eighteenth century type), the Africans have the palaces and the American Native and Meso civs do not have any type of fortification, except the Incas who have the fortress…
