For both @SugaryGraph1416 and @FragrantLion957, this is not because it’s in AOE2 or SC2 than it should or shouldn’t be in AOE4 this is not a valid argument
I like the fact that you can’t micro. There are enough games where micro and APM will win you matches. I like that in AoE4, macro and strategizing has been given importance.
But I don’t like that cannons load and unload too fast.
I also don’t like the fact that I can’t see siege projectiles easily. While in AoE2 cannonballs are just balloons, in AoE4, they are faster than light tachyons.
I never said it was - I’ve been playing pretty much AoE2 and nothing else for 2 decades (and it will continue to be my thing even if AoE4 becomes a huge hit), so I love the game, yet I still think we’re much better off without all that silly arrow dodging thing.
I was just pointing out the hypocrisy (and lack of a sound argument) by our friend here.
Yes, AoE4 shouldn’t just blindly copy SC2’s mechanics (despite it probably being the most successful RTS game we’ve got around), but it shouldn’t copy a crappy mechanic from AoE2 just because we’ve grown used to it either.
The whole SC2 thing came about here because the guy said a game can’t possibly have a micro component if not for the nonsensical ballistics archer dance, and someone correctly pointed out that the most micro intensive game ever doesn’t need that specific trait.
Here’s how I view it: you’ve got to have a balance between macro and micro to have a good, competitive RTS game. If you can override a superiority of double the army (say, 10 archers vs 5) by just clicking like a madman and win the engagement while not even losing a single unit, I call ■■■■■■■■ on that. Again, I tolerate it on AoE2 because I literally grew on that game and it has so many other redeeming features going for it, but that’s just bad design for a RTS if you ask me. Good riddance.
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In medieval time, platoon of units was used in rotation, one at the time, on the batlefield, so that fresh units be always on the field figthing and retreating units that was in a tired state.
Injured units where send back to base camp and the others where put together, in a new platoon, resting, befor the next figth.
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Do u mean aoe4 have micro now? I dont see it. If aoe4 has micro, why topic was created?
No ballistics. No micro. It’s two different statements.
For me current micro is enough, u dont need: “clicking like a madman and win the engagement” (c)FragrantLion957
A-click is the best solution.
Do u mean game should implement “stamina”? Nice idea.
As someone who played against a lot of strong players through open beta. These are the things that they did;
- Shoot and Scoot micro with archers
- Infantry/Archer split against siege
- Pull back micro in navy wars
- Pull back micro in light cav on focused cav.
- Garrison micro in ram (need better ungarrison feature for this to be practical)
- army positioning techniques… Not really micro but similar to it
There’s probably more stuff, but to say there’s no micro is flat out wrong just because you can’t dodge projectiles.
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This is one of my issues with Warcraft 3. There is almost no macro and superior micro in a battle can lead to situations where a far superior force is crushed by a much worse one. Really love the campaigns though.
I think AoE 4 is striking a pretty good balance with micro and macro potential right now. There are still a lot of little micro nuances that I think most people don’t even realize (since they’re not explained in game at all), like melee unit charge distances and cooldowns, spearmen stand ground to cancel charges, etc… However, I would like unit control to be a bit more snappy.
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Ballistic is not a crappy mechanic at all, this is for game balance/realism purposes not for adding more micro
They need to add a new mechanic in AOE4, copying AOM (arrow cant hit units faster than 5.0 speed) or AOE2 (ballistic) or make totally new one other type of a mechanic to balance
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I’m not against introducing something of the sorts (in fact, I’d prefer it if they solved the homing arrows issue, which I’m not a big fan of, either), as long as it’s somewhat balanced.
The whole purpose of arrow mechanics in aoe2, including ballistics, may not have been adding ridiculous amounts of micro weight into battle outcomes, but that’s certainly what it devolved into throughout the years, so we can learn from that experience.
I’m a bit on the fence on that one for now. On the one hand I agree it felt off so far, on the other I think that might have been mainly because of the command delay issue (unintended) on top of the slower turning animation thing (design choice). If they fix the former, I think I might actually like the latter a bit.
Which age of empires game has soldiers that lose legs? I must have missed that one.
As for the 10 arrows, with or without being able to retreat, a soldier taking 10 arrows is unrealistic anyways, so I’m not really sure what the argument is here. Unless you factor in that arrows really couldn’t pierce much armor, and so were only really effective against lightly armored soldiers.
The truth is that soldiers retreated when wounded in real life, and so your argument that it is unrealistic is invalid.
I agree. I am ok with some turning animation time, I don’t need the unrealistic instant snapping of aoe2 and SC2, but that command delay was pretty annoying.
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“I’m too lazy to learn a simple micro trick, so those who put in the work to learn it have an unfair advantage.” Dude.
“I want to be just as good as all the other players without putting forth any work whatsoever.” Dude…
A-click is one solution, which will generally have most units targeting one or a few enemies. The “stop” command is another option, which in the case of archers will spread the arrows out more evenly. See? There’s already more micro in Age 4 than you thought!
Personally I’m fine with the “homing missile” approach, my issue with it is that its really obvious, and really ugly right now. The projectiles need sped up or something. There is plenty of other forms of micro still in the game, not being able to dodge crossbow bolts isn’t game breaking to me, but it needs to be presented better.
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If you want this game to succeed longterm then it need to be possible to play it competitive. Which, without micro, won’t be the case.
And saying that it gives an unfair advantage to who ever learns hotkeys ? trolol, I should stop feeding the troll here, shouldn’t I ?
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I made same example as ppl were doing against ballistic micro.
But somehow people dont like it.
if i zoomed out, and managing my units, i dont want ro zoom in constantly to twak a few archers with small model to go back.
Dota have denies, LoL have only last hits, Hots have None. - still great games.
micro with squads is enough - do counter units to win, win with decisions, not because u click faster.
Ofcourse for players like you micro does not matter.
For every tournament player, every twitch viewer, every competitive player micro is an important part since it makes the game more interesting to play and to watch.
And in your elo range micro does not matter so you don’t need to worry about, you can just ignore it. Better Macro will win there anyways then half decent micro
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ballistic mechanic is bad, but micro from sc2 are good? How it’s work?
Dont transform game into archers play, with “who faster will drag units at the back to heal”.
For me all “suggestions” above are “hypocrisy”. Let’s throw away mechanics which were present for years, and replace it with cropped version of SC2 mechanic.
Micro is not about “clicking”. Can micro with squads, catch units in bad position etc.
500APM is outdated, decision making - future.
Just checked. still in top5% in TGs after a year of almost inactivity.
PS after CBT and stress test, i get used to dev’s approach to the game, aiming on casual players with low apm. If u dont like it, can suggest to return to SC2, there u wont find ballistics and low apm players. Only true tryhards.
Even if you remove every Micro aspect of the game people with more APM will be better than you, you know?
By executing more faster and placing the army faster at every sec everywhere on the map players with better APM will be better this is why is not making any sense to limiting the skilling cap because of this The ranked matchmaking will make you meet people with the same level as you.
Dota, LOL, SC2, all those games have something in common.
They can be played by casuals and they will have fun, but watching games only becomes that fun because there is a competitive layer which only better players will show.
There is 0 argument why you would only aim casual players and ignore the competitive scene. Without the attention of the competitive scene a game like AoE4 would just disappear like AoE and AoE3.
It is the tournaments, the viewers on twitch, the streamers which gives a longterm perspective. Without the competitive scene AoE2, by now, would be gone, actually all AoE titles probably would be gone and there would have never been any DE versions.
You mentioned Heroes of the Storm beeing a great game, in the same sentence you mentioned the actual competitive games. Well HotS is gone, it basically got abandoned by Blizard/Activision.
RTS games, same as Mobas need to be for both, casuals and competitive players, who denies that didn’t realize why AoE2 or SC2 survived that long.
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