Milicia line need be the counter unit of Ghulam?

According to statistics, Hindustani became the number 1 civilization with a 55.2% win rate in Arabia. why? This civilization is very complete, in addition to having a good economic bonus, it has a variety of units that allow it to respond to everything. In principle this would not be a problem, but it becomes one when one of those units also has very few counter-units. Let’s take a look at the elite Ghulam, HP 65, Attack 10 (+6 vs archers), Armor 0/6, Speed 1.2. It is very similar to the eagle warrior, it is designed to kill archers, the problem is that it also kills other things, the additional ranged damage makes it also very strong against melee units, they are not good against heavy cavalry, but works well against the militia line. many civilizations, especially those of archers, do not have heavy cavalry or hand cannoneer to fight against the ghulam, resulting in civ win for the hindustani. The most reasonable way to solve this problem, without affecting the ghulam’s characteristics, is for it to be considered an eagle warrior, which would allow it to take additional damage from the militia line. Thanks for your attention

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They already lose to a champion in a 1v1 fight. Champions overall do very good vs them. Teutonic Champs and Japanese (and other good infantry civ) do even better.

Militia line is really costly in the midgame also.
And in the lategame Hindustanis also have one of the best Hand Cannons to deal with that.

Whatever you do it always looks like Hindustanis have the perfect answer. And it’s easy, too.
With civs like poles it’s not always clear to see what’s the best transition (or if you need any). But Hindutanis: You see archers, you make Ghulam. You see Infantry, you make HC.
It’s too simple for a versatile civ.
If the units were at least harder to use in compositional battles, like skirms. Then it would be better. But they are even easy to micro / use effectively with few clicks. You only have to look that your camels don’t fight halbs and you are fine in most situations.

And in the midgame the eco bonus helps a lot. On all map types. Saving food is huge in early and midgame.

BUT one part of the high winrates of Hindustanis is also the Knight dominance we currently have. Archer civs still can damage Hindustanis before they get to Ghulam, whilst hindering Hindustanis to get to their Camels is a way harder task.
The top civs (which are btw all cavalry civs) all have one of their worst matchups vs Hindustanis. And as these civs are also picked way more often, this boosts the overall winrate of Hindustanis a lot, having good matchups vs basically all the other top civs on Arabia.


the upgrade take time and many resources, in the practice is inviable. Need bonus to be a counter

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Idk if this is the best solution.
As it looks currently to me, Hindustanis worst matchups are vs infantry civs already.
Imo the super camels and eco are still the main driver for this civ.
If the camels weren’t as dominant vs cavalry, we couid at least try to use cav vs the ghulam…

the HP nerf Ghulam got already makes Militia-line trade well vs them, even weaker versions like Vietnamese or Byzantines.

Hindustanis in general lack Knights so their power spike in Castle Age isn’t huge, maybe their dominance is due to them making all-in Knights in Castle Age unviable, and in Imp they have good Gunpowder, UU and versatility in general.

Most civs can go hussar vs them, is super cost effective and they win since HP nerf.

Better nerf Obuch!!

Agree here, remove the cheaper vills bonus in Dark Age and then we can talk about the Ghulam

This might’ve been a good idea if Hindustanis didn’t have one of the strongest HCs in the game. If you go full infantry against them imperial age, their HC will destroy you.

HIndustanis nearly never go mass HC. Typically I see them win games in Castle Age by getting a better boom due to vill discount (which also helps beat opponent in race to Castle age), more importantly cav civs will ALWAYS tech into cav eventually so their Camels will always get value (and later Hussar spam which they spam from generally an eco lead, the situation you wanna flood Hussar from).

I do think the odd game where they do tech into HC (whoch generally is vs the smart cav player who skips cav altogether and opens Halb Siege), those can feel oppressive, having more range than arbalest is definitely weird. Their BBC also get extra armor and that’s sometimes relevant.

In short though I think it’s them always having a boom lead and their good Imp (Hussar, BBC…) that wins them the most. They can also do the odd 18-19 pop Scouts if needed due to vill discount.

I would say, in general these civs that generate 1000+f in Castle age are not healthy for the game, as Food gives you the flexibility to go all army or also surprise opponent with an early Imperial. At least Hindustani of the 2 civs that can generate food (other one being Poles) don’t have Knights so their aggression is limited.

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What you have said is true, except for when they face an opponent who really knows their weakness. That’s infantry in castle age. They don’t get arbs, so they mostly go for ghulams and camels in castle age. It needn’t even be halb siege, but it works super well infantry civs. If you don’t finish the game in castle age or early imperial though, you are done. Once they get into imperial, they can get their crazy HCs which will destroy your infantry.

Pikeman is not an aggressive unit and generally ignored if you go full pike, the response in high elo is just full boom, you are on a food unit, he isn’t so he always beats you to Imp race.

If he adds Siege, aside from the fact that Siege is very average on Arabia for reasons that would require a separate post, you can defend with only Siege because Pikemen can’t run under the TC.

We all saw some MbL game where Pike + Skirm + Siege + Monk does massive damage and MbL wins in Imp thereafter. But on average, Pike + Monk + Siege is very easy to shut down (Redemption Monks, going to Stone early, microing Knights/Light Cav to snipe Siege etc.). So in reality Hindustanis aren’t punishable by Pikeman, generally if you get a more aggressive Castle Age Hindustanis player, they play a mix of Light Cav from Feudal, 2-3 Camels to snipe the enemy Knights who wanna snipe your Siege, and, when you have a sufficient lead, they always tech into CA (probably open Xbow since CA opening is generally not viable).

CA incidentally while very hard to tech into, and good only once you get a mass of 15-20 and Bloodlines + Husbandry + Bodkin (ideally you want the other techs also, of course), is like the best unit on Arabia because it soft counters Knights and hard counters basically everything else (villagers on woodlines, Pikemen, Xbow, Siege etc.). In a 200 pop vs 200 pop scenario CA has a few weaknesses, but until you get there it’s the best combat unit on Arabia if you exclude those gimmicky/rare ones like Malay Battle Elephant, Janissary etc.

I am not talking about pikemen. I am talking about the militia line (buffed from some infantry bonus), and infantry UU. Make kamayuks, bersers, urumis, etc. All of those will shred camels and ghulams. CAs are good, but useless against Ghulams.

Against Hindustani CAs, you make skirms. Even if they can run away, they will be forced to fight once you start to tear though their buildings with arson infantry.

Skirms are not a very viable counter to CA in current version of Arabia, Hindustani CA is a fairly strong powerspike in general and one Longswords or Pikemen don’t beat. More generally, Barracks units don’t beat Archer-line either and Hindustanis most often open Crossbowmen in Castle Age.

Skirms take too many techs to be viable and after you make them all, the CA can always run away, also adding a few Knights to CA mass isn’t hard at all as you very likely already have a Stable so you only need to invest into +1 armor. Sure you will say Hindustanis don’t have Knights, but really about everything beats Skirms, from Light Cav with decent upgrades (which Hindustanis have), to your own Mangonels.

This not to mention that at mid/high level people WANT to make gold units because those are viable long-term, while counter units are more intended to buy time and very often if you tech into a counter unit, chances are you miss some upgrades in Imperial age (e.g. Franks a civ that is weak-ish to CA precisely because in Imp their Skirms aren’t spammable).

In general if you can make the opponent do every tech required for Skirms (elite costing 230w, 130g, Bodkin, etc.), you can say you had success because you delayed his boom and especially as the defender (who is supposed to, in theory, be the player with the better boom) you don’t wanna be adding University, Ballistics etc. but you’d rather be adding stuff like Wheelbarrow and Heavy Plow. Baiting out unit switches is a skill and in general people don’t upgrade Pikeman, Skirm etc. gladly, it’s generally viewed as an admission that the opponent has an army edge to the point that your main unit will no longer be able to trade well.

That has never been my experience. As far as I’ve seen, they go scouts early and boom behind camels and cav archers. They then add a castle and start spamming ghulams.

If you leave them unprotected, yes. But if you have japanese militia line, samurais and pikes, then no. As the opponent to hindustani player, you shouldn’t go for a boom because you won’t outboom your opponent.

After seeing lots of games of Hindus vs Mayans in high level, I think, despite being fine that Mayans get a very bad match up in 1v1 while having like 80% better match ups, Ghulam training time must be increased, 1 castle Ghulam production is almost equal to 3 barrack eagle production, which makes that quite unfair if you ask me. Increase the training time from 12 seconds to 16 seconds (unit that cost less food than gold shouldn’t be able to be produced that fast).


Hindustanis hard countering Meso civs is not big a problem. Only 3 meso civs exist. The match up is very less in random. I do agree though their Hand cannons just shred Eagles.

Why does imperial camel not have “Unique unit” armour?

Militia line can be a good counter to Ghulum and other unique units if they get an attack bonus.
How about Militia line getting the same amount of building damage bonus against unique units too? It will be 0/+2/+3/+4 from Dark to Imp ages.

The bonus can help Militia line become a useful unit and a good late game composition.

Meso civs too can use them as a cheaper counter to ghulum.

I don’t think militia line needs bonus vs ghulam because ghulam itself is already low in HP and melee armor, most civs can use champions with supplies, is fine.
Also, I already said, Ghulam already loses to light cavalry and hussar.

Oh yeah that’s definitely true. Hindustani units are so micro unintensive, that it feels like auto pilot. Atleast with Gurjaras you need to micro your CT (or they die to a single Mangonel hit or 4 scorpion bolts), or somewhat the SVR too.

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