Militia line has I think 14 different upgrades between the barracks and blacksmith. 6 blacksmith techs, 4 barracks techs (supplies, gambesons, arson, squires), and 4 unit upgrade techs. Correct me if I’m missing anything.
Then after all those techs all it takes is chemistry and your fully upped champions are HARD countered by hand cannoneers.
For comparison:
Cav archers have a lot of techs, but I think it’s 13 (correct me if I’m missing anything) 1 unit upgrade to heavy CA, 2 university, 6 blacksmith, 2 stable, 2 archery range upgrades (thumb ring, Parthian). Then unless your skirms or camels get key upgrades they will lose the the fully upped CA pretty clearly.
I’m curious what people think, but I’d say combining supplies with MAA and gambesons with LS could be a start.
I think Militia’s cost should be swapped. 20 food, 60 gold. Or something like that. 25F 50G maybe.
Supplies should be moved to imperial age and change its effect, Militia line 30G cost replaced by 30F cost (resulting in 55F 20G each unit)
Arson moved to Feudal and give Militia line +4 to buildings. (The rest of infsntry remains in +2)
Squires moved to feudal too and keeps the same effect.
All tech’s food costs replaced by wood and increased, making specially arson and squires more usefull in feudal, but somehow force player to choose bonus vs buildings(for aggressive plan) or movement speed (to help survavility).
Gambesons could be merged to LS upgrade but increase cost of infantry blacksmith defense upgrades.
Finally, Champion upgrade should give more stats that nowadays, and making more rare, similar to Paladin.
As a general rule, cics with champion shouls lacks of Supplies.
This way, you can differentiate an elite, but costly infantry from a generic but cheap one
This topic raises an interesting question I asked myself a long time.
Where comes it from the militia line is so costly to tech into? Shouldn’t it the other way around?
It’s a unit that has little going for it cause it has no stat usable to get an advantage
For me the natural impression would be: A unit that doesn’t take a lot of commitment and can be played as a low-investment general aggression tool. Something that can be made to just get something out esepcially against “greeedy” players who want to skip ages. Somehting that gets a guaranteed value against opponents who are trying to get to the ages way too quickly.
This is impossible with the current design of the units, but as the units are so bad still - would definitely be one option for the devs to consider
As it also would kinda sole the “trash counter” issue wit that unit. With very small investment into upgrading the militia line units they would naturally scale very badly and therefore wouldn’t be as much of a threat when gold runs out for either side.
I don’t really know if this is the best way to go for the line, but it is definitely one of the options devs could aim for.
PS: I’m speaking specifically about the upgrade inestments here, not the individual unit cost. So the barracks tech cost and time and ofc the infantry armor.
IMO， Squires should be applied by default and footman should not be slower than foot archer.
Gambesons should be removed, Militia got buffed by 1 PA long time ago so we can do the same if the extra PA is really needed.
Arson should be applied by default too because melee units in feudal age can’t do anything to palisade wall which does not make any sense.
Supply should be an imperial tech, the original cost of Militia should be 35 food 25 gold, and supply will covert 10 gold cost to 10 food cost. This will solve the issue of resources value in different ages so people might use infantry more.
There is another problem, the devs have never thought of the future overall balance before they released new civs. Making any change might make a certain civ very OP. I think we don’t need too many civs in this game so it will result less civ counters.
Arson is a castle age tech but otherwise…this…might work. As far as the counter system goes, the best thing the militia line has going for it is being anti building, at least before imp. +2 vs buildings, and age earlier, for free.
the only wrinkle is that goths don’t get arson. AFAIK all techs that have been made free are ones that were accessible by every civ (like tracking and cartography). The goth bonus would have to be adjusted somehow, but otherwise this seems like it has potential.
Technically this would also buff eagles, but trying to take down buildings isn’t what comes to mind when I think of eagles. When I think eagles I think speed, and squires would buff that.
A variation is just having the militia line have +4 vs buildings starting with MAA and leaving arson how it is. Regardless I think there is some merit to this more bonus damage vs buildings earlier idea.
I totally agree on the overall idea that the militia line cost too much in upgrades for its efficiency and it would make sense that combines some techs in the upgrades or revisit the costs of some upgrades (such as using wood instead of food).
Sometimes, I wonder if splitting the militia line could facilitate balancing in the future. It seems very delicate to improve the line as it is currently without breaking something especially since with its “generalist” role.
I like what a lot of poeple are saying, move supplies to imperial age where it changes a gold cost to a food cost like Magyar Hussar’s Corvinian Army tech.
Include squires speed boost with pikeman, LS, and eagle warrior automatically.
Include arson with LS or MAA tech automatically. Eagle warrior doesnt need arson, its an anti archer and a raiding unit. Spears dont need to do bonus vs buildings either. Adjust infantry UU apprioriately.
Gambesons perhaps stays, i dont have strong feelings on this.
Then hand cannons will still hard counter with just one tech but that hits in inperial age. Infantry still dies to archers and knights.
I just die inside a little when I see Japanese go knights to counter eagle pushes in tournament games.
I said Militia had 0 PA in the very beginning, somehow they got 1 PA now. They could have 2 PA if they are too weak without Gambesons or they can remain 1 PA.
I think give militia extra PA is not the way to go, They still get free killed by archers till imp age because they are too slow, and food value is too high so that people don’t want to spam them.
There should just be one upgrade for the militia line per age.
Dark: Militia
Feudal: MAA
Castle: 2 handed swords
Imperial: Champions
That way you can always get your power spike when you hit the next age by getting the next armour and the upgrade. I also agree that the food cost is too high. Gold cost should be higher to compensate. Same resources as eagles would be perfect. 25F 50G. This means you can always afford your eco upgrades and the militia upgrade + armour when you hit the next age.
I think it is ok having 2 upgrades in Imperial Age, just like Cavalier and Paladin to give some civs a gamechanging upgrade.
The problem is that nowadays there is more civs with access to champion that those without it. Which devaluates champion’s image as the top evolution of the militia-line.
A similar opposing situation for archers would be to split fletching, bodking and bracer each into another tech for the +1 range. That would make it more fair.
Just like cavalry has bloodlines separatly.
Also i think the swordsman line in AoE1, and the main infantry lines in AoM for example the hoplite are way more tankier. While for example the medieval swordsman line should be even more tankier. But with Teutons we have the armor bonus i think thats good, but im used to their history thats my reference to swordsmen with their gothic armor. But gameplaywise i still think the militia-line is too weak and too expensive with 60 food. That’s why i like supplies, but i think its better to make it standard. And to give militia-line like 20 or 30 more hitpoints. Even man at arms only have 45 hitpoints. Archers have 30, and 4 attack. Maybe archers should be nerfed with 10 less hitpoints and 1 attack less if swordsmen aren’t buffed.
For starter, make arson free upon reaching castle age/ LS upgrade and adjust goth bonus accordingly. Gambeson is no longer locked behind supplies at least to give more flexibility.
Intesting point. True that they have too much techs. But at the same time, I don’t think (as a player told on this topic) that costs of units should be reduce.
Otherwise, militia line will become trash units super strong against buldings. When you opponent send 80 champions in your base suddenly, it erases all the town in few seconds and there is not much to do. It’s like every one can do flemmish revolution with champions instead.
I think giving them a bit more pierce armor + THS at castle age would be enought. Maybe slightly more speed.
Also THS should have 13 attack instead of 12 because they have a Two Handed Sword which should be strong (but no shield so they have less pierce armor).
Adding a turtoise formation for infantry with shield could be also an option. Somthing that give them a lot of pierce armor. But they move slowly and cannot attack.
Even Goth players don’t usually make infantry in feudal and castle age. Lower their cost and they will be cost effective eventually.
Most archers don’t have bonus against infantry. Infantry can’t force a fight unless they push into opponent’s base, and they can’t escape from anything.
I like the idea of AOE1, it is more history accurate, hoplite is heavy infantry, they use shield and spear, slow and powerful. Swordsman is light infantry, weak but much cheaper, cost 35f/15g
In AOE2, swordsman is very weak too, but cost 60f/20g.
The devs gave everybody +1 PA for some reason. Villagers had 1 PA with loom, they have 2 PA now. Infantry got 0 PA before, and they have 1 PA now. It did not change the situation of infantry at all.
I have suggested this many times before, but just make a toggle (like the farm reseed one) to auto-queue the next upgrade for the Champion upgrade. If you don’t have the resources, it won’t do it. If you do, the next tech will be queued up after the previous one.
I would consider too make mAA an auto-upgrade, for free for all civs. Just like scouts.
Bulgarians still can keep their identity with Ls and THS auto-update
