How Is a small bonus vs villager gonna make them insane in Imperial age? That’s not gonna happen
One solution for that could be to give the militia line a small bonus vs Cavalry and heavy cav a corresponding amount of anti-cav bonus damage.
This ofc would also mean that all units that currently deal anti-cav damage would need to be adjusted correspondingly.
This change could possibly also help units like GC in the lategame situations when they seemingly also sometimes just die slowly to hussar flloods cause they are too gold intensive. I think these units are designed to shred light cav in the lategame so it would be nice if they did.
In general this change would allow for a lot of interesting mechanics, unitst that are designed to counter light cav but killed by heavy cav etc. - I think it could be an intersting change and makes a lot of sense.
Another option would also be to just give the militia line higher melee armor. It would make sense for a heavy infantry to have more than 1.
On the other hand… against mass hussars, why you want to make champs over halbs?
Or just add eagle armor class to scouts (rename it obviously).
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Imo most units should only have 1 armor class so it’s easier to understand what’s happening.
that’s not how it is at the moment though:
all unique units have at least 2 armour classes
eg something like mangudai has 4 armour classes: archer, cav archer, cavalry, unique unit
jannisary has 3: archer, gunpowder, unique unit
etc
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you can give the argument of “small buff won’t make it OP” for basically any unit. It’s a fundamentally flawed argument.
Would Knights be OP with 110 base HP? Probably not.
Would Crossbows costing -5w be too strong? Probably about as strong as now.
So the better question is, is Militia-line used right now? And the answer is, Drush is a common tactic, MAA are sporadically seen too, Champions are seen by a few Champion civs and, in the ultra late game, also by the “non-Champion civs”. Just most games don’t come down to full trash wars, especially in tournaments, but if it comes down to a 3 vs 2 Relic gold generation, you can be sure people will tech Champions, imo.
Perhaps a bigger reason for why Champions aren’t seen as much is that Hussars are such a strong late-game unit on Arabia-like maps, I would look into that first and look into Hussar vs Champion interaction in 200 pop scenarios in late game.
MAA is the most common tactic on the ladder rn, no?
I think longsword, two handed and champions, should get +1/+2/+3 bonus damage against cav. Just so they can beat hussars easier and don’t get wiped by paladins as hard.
Similoar to eagles actually.
Or make new tech “gewalthaufen/pike formation” which adds anti cav bonus damage to all infstry, with this we can fine tune who gets this. Buff and who doesn’t
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Why should they have bonus damagr vs cavalry in general? They arent supposed to fight heavy cav. Bonus vs scouts im ikay with
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Also considering the cost they trade even okayish vs knights after the last longsword changes. The main advantage knights have is mobility to decide when to take engagement. The main weakness the swordsmen have is vs archers. They get hard countered by xbows.
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yeah and +1/3 bonus vs heavy cav serves nothing i think with that massive HP. i think changing eagles and scout into a single armor class would do the trick and spice the game a bit, as then you could have a choice in feudal when attacked by scouts. do you make spears and play defensively or make MAA, that would then do 8 damage against scout, to beat them and then have the potential to go on the offense? not something that would happen in high play i think but more tactical options are always good i think
that would be interesting but would steal the concept of vikings chieftains, which is a UT for a specific civ which does not have halberdiers nor other strong cav options themselfs.
but i would be all for new tech for infantry. barracks is already flled with techs, but nothing really stands out like bloodlines for cavalry or thumb ring for archers
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Honesfly i would nof give men at arms bonux damage vs scouts. Maa are alreasy very strong.
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i do not think that would change that much. after all, if we are going to change the armor class for scouts and eagles then MAA have +2 against eagles already so that should translate into scouts, otherwise you would need to remove the +2 from eagles, or make an entirely new armor class for scout line only different from eagles.
i would simply accept MAA to have bonus against scouts. they would still be much slower so it makes sense that if you let your scout get caught you get punished, and MAA still get trashed by archers in feudal with no squires available
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Except men at arms is already rhe most powerful opener, and with this change maa into archers gets pushed further ahead and scout openers fall further behind. Youre basically boosting the most meta opening.
For comparison imagine if we decided to give knights and archers +1 attack vs infantry right now.
Would that sound like a good idea?
point is, longswords would have bonus vs scout line in castle age anyway if we change the armor class no? so only problem would be that +2 for feudal MAA? i do not think so since you are not countering MAA with scout. you do it with archers, and to fend off opponent scouts, you are probably still going for spears since they move faster and have bigger bonuses and do not force you to mine gold early, so i think this would not change feudal age meta by one bit. after all, atm bloodlines scout beat MAA 1 vs 1, and after this +2, they would still trade even.
unless you just want to make the bonus vs scout pop out of the blue just in imperial age for THS and champions, but that would be un-elegant for me and very rarely seen in the game
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The problem is balance must be maintained. You dont do that by buffing the most used tactics at the expense of lessee used tactics. That pushes sfuff further out of balance.
yeah but those two tactics are never going to clash into each other since you do not counter MAA opener with scout anyway, and you counter scout opener with spears anyway, so i do not see the problem really. its not a universal buff for MAA of course, is just a limited bonus damage vs a specific unit that MAA are likely to never run into except the initial scout, which can still be used to annoy them and bait them with speed
besides, it would require a new armor class for just the scout line and start the bonus in castle, which would require more work than simply merging scouts and eagles into one
Or just not adding scout armor until light cav. Which is simple and easy. After all scouts aren’t the problem. Light cav and hussar in the late game are.
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mh, that would do the trick as well i guess and would be fine by me, even if i’m not as concerned as you about feudal MAA +2 bonus, i get the sentiment. it just feels a bit weird as adding a new armor class after an upgrade is something we do not have in the game already iirc. units tend to have the same armor class from their start to final form
Just give Scout +2 value of Scout Armor, what is exactly as much as is needet. Problem solved.
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