Militia-Line new bonus damage

Hei! so in a post few days ago we discussed about a way to help switch into militia by making THS and champs faster and cheaper to research. that would already be a great change imho.

something that i still want to address about militia is that they are supposed to counter trash, yet they are not really a counter to hussar. they can’t force a good engagements and even if they manage to get in melee, hussar just do not die as hard to what should be a counter, to the point that you can actually beat champions with hussars supply wise (i believe SOTL made a whole video about that). a bonus damage would go a long way, and they already do bonus vs eagles so why not use just that?

another problem i see is that since the purpose is countering trash, but there are really not that much trash until imperial age, and in castle you can counter trash better with an opposing gold unit (EG skirms with knights and spears with xbows) there is little reason to ever train longswords despite any possible stat buff

so how about giving militia some raiding potential through sheer brute force? knights can have mobility and tankyness, xbows can pick of villagers from afar, so why not give militia a small bonus vs villager? combined with the bonus vs building you could theoretically break a wall and then kill villager and actually do damage

a change like this would not impact their weakness to both KTS and XBows, that would still reign supreme in castle, but at least Militia would have a chance to keep up maybe allowing infantry civ to make use of their bonuses early

so to sum up:

  • Change eagle warrior armor class to scout class and add it to the scout line. so that militia gets same bonus vs eagles against scout-line too

  • Add a bonus vs villager. Could start with +1 with MAA that do not need it that much and go to +3 with LS, to make them deal 12 damage as opposed to the KTS 10. maybe scaling to +4 with THS.

what do you think?


Basically the only way rhis is true is if you havs a really good hussar vs a less rhen fully upgraded champ. Which is also true of other counter units as well.

This has already been proposed a number of times as is over the past couple years

It likely wont work because as you said rhe other options are iust better all around.

Maa opener absolutely does not need buffs. If such a bonus was added (hugely doubtful) it should start with ls

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Also champs already kill vils in 2 hits. You needed bonus dmg of +10 to improve on that (besides one shooting vils is a bit ridiculous imo).

yeah but the intent is not to make the LS options better than KTS or Xbows, but merely to make them an option to begin with. combination of easier to mass, damage against building, and bonus vs villager would make me at least try to make them work. would it be better than other options? unlikely, but would be fun a spice up a bit castle age meta.

the MAA thing was merely because it’s strange for such a bonus to appear out of the blue in the second upgrade, but i agre infact that MAA are fine so it would be fine to start with LS

how so? FU champs do 16 damage to a villager which requires 3 hit to kill. with +4 bonus, that would exactly bring it down to 2 hits

Villagers have 40 hp. They kill them in 3 hits.

And like i said, i dont think it will have a real impact. Just like the recent ls buffs had almost no impact.

Yeah my bad I forgot to extra hp due to loom. So yeah it would reduction amounts of hits by one. Sure why not. But I don’t think this changes anything. However maa really shouldn’t get extra atk.

well seeing it like that, if it won’t have a big impact, why not just implement it? worst thing that can appen is that nothing changes. best thing is that you might start to see some LS. so no downsided to that

i mean, we got to do something to the LS otherwise is just a useless tax to go through MAA to imperial, outside of just those 3 MU that have eagles

Because change for the sake of change is not a good idea.

Lwt me ask you this. Do you like doing work for free if you know it has no impact.


i could reverse this, and ask. how can you accept that something is almost useless without even trying to do something and then see what appens?

it would be a very little effort upgrade, probably require like 5 mins from the devs, and maybe, just maybe, could make the game more fun. if not, you have wasted 5 minutes, but at least you tried.

in the past few years, devs have tried to make LS more viable in castle via various buffs, so they are trying to make something about it, despite knowing that probably would never been enough, but they still try

Because i understand that not every unit line needs to see plsy in every age.

Or they could focus on changes that actually have meaningful impact.

Most the recent changes have been more geared towards streamlining.

than the LS upgrade should not exist otherwise is just 45 seconds and 215 res tax, and basically all other units in the game have uses at the age they are available, outside obviously bad one like steppe lancers of course, and its not like countering eagles which are availale in 3 MU is actuall worth the tax that is in the others 35+

like what? propose something yourself maybe, i would gladly hear that

And yet it still has times when it shines outside those 3 matchups. Its niche but so is castle age light cav, and of course elephants.

I alreasy have. Numerous times. But the fact is i am finr with the ls line as is for the most part. I dont think it needs buffs to be more viable. The only change i would do to the militia line is cheaper and faster imp upgrades.

Their is a fundamental reason its not seen much in castle age much and giving it bonus vs villagers wont change that.

If you actually want them to see more castle age use, youd have to fundamentally change the balance of the game from the ground up.

Weve already seen that making them cheaper (supplies), cheaper to tech too (supplies and ls discount), and increasing armor and hp (various changes over the years) has had almost no impact.
We even have civs with bonuses for thwm for free who still only rarely rely on them, including extra hp (vikings), armor (teutons, malians), attack (burmese), speed (celts), cost (goths, portuguese) and attack speed (Japanese).

If you truly want them to see castle age use you have to change them (or otger units) so much you change the meta of the game.

i dont think bonus damage against villagers is useful for champions. if you are in a situation where champions start attacking vils it’s probably time to call the gg anyway


This is also a very valid point.

well my idea was that in castle a unit has to have damage potential for your opponent eco, and KTS and Xbows are good because of that, so the bonus vs villager would give some raiding potential. i get that probably would not have a big impact, but at least would give them the ability to actually hurt someone eco and in that case i, personally, would give them a try at least

How often have you seen ls knocking down buildings in castle age at the highest levels?

Its incredibly rare. Even giving them a bonus vs villagers isnt going to change that because why would i use a slow unit like that when i have knights who can take more punishment and are more mobile or archers with range.

If were ro the point where ls are raiding eco the game is already over. Buffing them vs eco isnt going to change that.

Again change for tge sake of change that has no real impact is not a good idea.

If the goal is to have a meaningful impact you have to chsnge stuff in a way that will have a meaningful impact.

I do agree with giving militia line bonus vs scout line.

I agree on the first point. It is unreasonable that winged hussar can beat champion. Generic Hussar is not very bad against champion.


Yep. This onr has been suggested a frw times over the years and i still think its an okay buff

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Militia-line is fine imo. It has a place in the meta. It’s not a unit that is used as much as Crossbows or Knights, but it has a place in the game. If you buff them in their weak stages (Castle Age, early Imperial), you make them insane and uncounterable in the phases of the game where they are already strong (post-Imperial).

They still serve their purpose of being the earliest military unit in the game, as well as countering eagles, huskarls, pikes, skirmishers (in decent numbers) and perhaps most crucially, buildings, especially with arson researched. I would sooner accept a reduction in their Castle Age food cost to 40 or 50 than buff their attack stats.