Oh ok. So which unit is better countering trash?
unit combos like knight+skirms, scout+archer, eagles, sieges. did you see any pro used them really for kill trash ?
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and all of his points are BS.
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i didn’t understand what you mean here
Ok. Knights cost 75 gold each. Archer cost 45 gold each. When natural gold on the map is running out, and there is no trade, who’s gonna still build those expensive gold units? Market trading only generate 4-5 gold per min, pretty bad. It makes a lot more sense to build champions than to build expensive units to counter trash. Heck, siege is still very good at countering trash minus hussar. This is why Champion gets the reputation of being a trash counter, not because LS are used to kill enemy trash support.
Devs don’t play games. Players do. Its players’s choice to not use LS in castle, not devs. Instead, devs might also want certain units to be more viable. Just look at how they buff cav archers: lower the gold cost from 70 to 60.
So you are proposing that when you are running off of gold in the map you spend a lot of it to upgrade a unit that cost gold and will be easilly erased by the knights and archers that survived to the late game, ok then, merry xmas
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i was going to write that. so i deleted my comment, good
Again, knights and archers are very gold intensive, while champions are not. Upgrade cost is there, but a sensible player would not wait until they completely run out of gold before starting the transition, same for transitioning from pikeman to halberdier. If you still believe people would still mass knights and archers when gold on the map runs out then also merry Xmas.
players using useful units, not using unuseful units. if a unit is overpowered every player will get triggered but when a unit is bad, this won’t change players’s game experience by just not using them. this doesn’t mean units don’t need buff
Do you think that champs will have a good trade against paladins or archer? you are already in late game so you will be limited by your pop cap.
I would rather spend that gold upgrading hussars. that are way better raiding and you probably have already all the bs upgrades if you used knights and won’t cost food over time
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Yes, they use useful units instead of unusable units. In the super late imp, natural gold runs out, Champion is a better gold units than knights and archers. Even siege is better than knights and archers.
Again you keep bringing late game paladin and archer thing. There is literally zero civ that has late game food-only paladin (hopefully new civs don’t have trash knights lol), only Persian has trashbow (after DE buff). For most other civs, archer and knights are out of question in super late game.
Yes, when you only have 600 gold left, upgrading hussar is a better call. But since champion can’t be countered by any of those conventional trash units (pikes, skirms, LCs), they will easily outlast ur trash, allowing the player to push the line forward. Getting the chance to tech switch to champion is considered a better call, even though not all players would make that call all the game. Siege is also great against trash, which most players can do, as long as they have onagers.
TLDR, my point is militia line is not useless. It has its intended use. It’s always up to players to make that call based on the current situation, and thats a bit too much to discuss imo.
i will continue tomorrow. time is very late and my brain stopped
What I don’t understand is: why should longswords be as viable as knight and archer in castle age? I mean, what should they accomplish after the buff that isn’t actually done by other units?
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being a slow, upgrade-intensive force?
I’m aware that pike-siege-monk also matches that description, but that plays very differently, so there’s some aspect I’m missing. Help me out if you can.
Ideally knights or xbows would have to use their mobility or nimbleness to beat longswords (if one of them can win with brute force that’s fine). It would add another class of tactics to the game.
Fixing the Militia line i liked this topic aswell. you guys can read, good arguments and change suggestions
Militia line don’t need anything, and any buff for it will need to make a whole new balance for all infantry civs especially the stupid sick goths
The issue is not mainly the militia line being underpowered. The issue is that investing food in m@a is too risky as a fast castle with knights and crossbows melts them. Opposed to scouts, who can at least take some beating from a few archers and finish off fleeing villagers and can choose to fight or not due to speed.
It’s easy to wall in your base with regular buildings and defend with a couple of archers, players are better off with getting archery units that do not require food.
Lategame champions do fine as imp allows easy food production.
To buff militia you need to give them a chance to put pressure onto opponents, which is only possible with 2 things:
- give m@a +1/1 armor from the start or reduce their cost to 30 food/30g (or 50f/20g)
- allow siege workshop with rams in Feudal, optional with scorpions trainable aswell.
This way you get the full range of units in feudal to do all-ins with infantry based civs and counter fast castle players. Scorpions can partly counter xbows and with +1 melee armor and cheaper price m@a can fight better against knight line.
Only thing which has to be checked is whether those costs affect Imperial Age a lot…
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Yeah but my question is: what shoud this slow - brute force unit do in practice?
The issue is that you can’t get map control with it because it lacks mobility and range, so they’re gonna struggle to engage.
You can’t even really push with LS because slow push are stronger in early castle especially after FC builds, because enemy is more likely to lack military and fortification to face them, while LS would require a certain farm eco to sustain production. So monk siege is always gonna be a preferred way to perform a castle age push.
What I’m saying is that design-wise, militia line has little business in castle, except countering some unit in certain specific scenarios. Few buffs here and there won’t change anything except maybe screw other parts of the game