Natives are awesome for their flexibility. To me, other than increasing the amount of techs the natives offer, I would do the following:
Ensure that all unit upgrade cards affect natives. E.G make it so that all Dutch infantry upgrades upgrade the equivalent native too. Turning them into more powerful units, keeping the bonus of them not taking pop space. A Tag could be added for native units ensuring this happens, some cards only buff certain units, for example Germany and Uhlan upgrade cards - make it apply to native cav too.
Give the option of using food + Wood or Food + Gold to train natives. Keep the same number you can train maximum, but give players and option of what resource to use when training them, helping in a pinch and keeping within the theme of flexible units.
That already happens. That’s why they increased the training speed in DE.
They had all a quick training speed compared to the main civs and with cards and techs they would be created almost instantly.
Give the option of using food + Wood or Food + Gold to train natives
I see your point but I believe there are multiple arguments about why the original developers kept food+ wood only. I’m not against it nor in favor. I’m just waiting for anything about them to be done XD.
That is why it is difficult for me to propose ideas regarding Asian natives. I’ll let the others do it .
But I would like to put some ideas to consider:
Shaolin:
For example, rat shields could give them an upgrade that boosts their damage against artillery and guerrillas.
I do not know what is the historical argument that gives a benefit in the harvesting of wood, but I would like a new improvement in which it gives access to 400 wood for each shipment. (Useful for the treated mode and similar to the Spanish gold card, but in wood).
Zen:
Sohei Naginata: It should be stronger because they were extremely disciplined monks and very good at marsial arts. They used naginata, so they should have a point of reach.
I propose 2 improvements:
Kaihōgyō: Zen units with better attack, speed and resistance points.
Negoroji and Ikko-Ikki Sects: Unlock a firearm unit (Unit armed with a musket).
I will present it more legibly if the ideas come up, I will leave it for discussion to see how it works. I would like you to give me information about why the Shaolin were good at gathering wood.
In fact if you really want to be historically accurate then the rattan shield shouldn’t even be a Shaolin unit, instead it was mostly used by troops from Southern China. Shaolin monks mostly used the staff, for training they would use a wooden staff but for wars they would use an iron one or a wooden one reinforced with iron cap.
There’re many Asian natives you could add, depending on the location. For the map of Hokkaido you could add the Ainu, with the units being the Ainu bowman or Ainu horse archer. For the map of Manchuria, the Manchus (or the Jurchens). For the map of Korea, of course the Koreans, and they could have a unit called Joseon musketeer. For Indo-China, the Annamese, the Siamese, the Khmer, the Chams, etc, and they could offer us some elephant units like elephant archer, elephant gunner, battle elephant, etc. For Borneo and Indonesia, we could have the Malays, the Acehnese, the Dayaks, the Javanese, the Moluccans, etc, and they could provide us some interesting units like the Karambit warrior, the Keris warrior, the Dayak headhunter, etc. And if the devs ever gonna add a map about Southern China, then there could be the Hmong and the Zhuang, with the Hmong offering Hmong skirmishers and the Zhuang offering Wolf Troops (an Asian version of the Coyote Runner) or Poison Crossbowman (functions similar to the Jungle Bowman of the Incas). The possibilities are many and I’m just listing some of them.
Mapuche Mantles Textiles (225f, 225c):You bred better livestock and can make the better of their wool. Effect: Livestock can store 25% more food. Improves ranged resistance of Settlers and melee heavy infantry by 10%. Why: A sudanese technology makes Cavalry and shock infantry get +10% melee resistance for 250w, 250c. This one improves settlers and infantry resistance by a weaker amount.
Mapuche Silverwork/Mapuche Silver Finery (200f, 200c): Acknowledgement and alliance with the Mapuche tribes strengths the trade and the wealth between you and them. New effect: Gives a trickle of 1.00 coin. Increases the coin trickle by .5 for each Mapuche settlement you control. Why: Coin Stacked? I dunno. But considering Mapuche are on maps where the coin mines are not that abundant and they have technologies focused on coin, I believe this one could be of good use. It’s a cheap tech and it starts gently considering you’re gonna have around 1 settlement anyway.
Lore:“Silverwork is one of the best known aspects of Mapuche material culture. They adopted metallurgy around the Spanish arrival era of the 16th century and during the latter half of the 18th century, Mapuche began to produce large amounts of silver finery”.Mapuche silverwork - Wikipedia ¹
Mapuche Clava Hand Club (300w, 300c): Effect: Increases the hand damage, base limit and range of Ironwood Clubman and Bolas Rider by 25%, 25% and +1. (Base limit is 8, tech makes it go from 8 to 10). Available on Fortress Age. Why: Both units are okay and both have special effects (Both Bolas and Clubman has an AOE damage), however they are still sub-optimal when comparing their standard counterparts. Buffing their damage is also an indirect buff due their area of effect.
I like that you promote this. Passive improvements encourage more use of native villages. They force you to expand more around the map at the same time that they become more useful.
Quechua replaces Incas now. Let’s go! (I’ve messed up with edition and had to update the post but it’s better now).
NEW TECHS
Quechua Reciprocity (175w, 150c): QuechuaI’s values of Ayni (mutualism) improves the building time for you. Effect: Settlers build 20% faster (except walls and defensive buildings). Why: Effect has been updated so it only benefits the player. Lore:Ayniy (today for you, tomorrow for me) can refer to either the concept of reciprocity or mutualism among people of the Andean communities or the practice of such concept. As a verb, this often refers to the cooperation between the members of a community when one member gives to another, he or she is entitled to receive something back. Ayni: Honoring the Humanity in All - Global Volunteers Ayni - Wikipedia
Quechua Mountain Llamas (200f, 200c): Living and respecting the Quechua allows you to receive llamas. Effect: YouI’ll get 1 semi-fatten llama (250f) with every shipment you receive from now on. Max Mountain llama you can have at the same time: 8 llamas. Why: I believe it to be a good addition, however, balancing it is something to be done: I don’t know whether 1 semi-fattened is better or not fattened at all. Lore:Llamas are used and valued by the Andean communities. Andean civilizations - Wikipedia
Quechua Royal Warriors (400f, 400w, 400c ): The Ayllu traditions allow experienced warriors to help your army and share their knowledge of warfare. Effect: Ships 1 Experienced Quechua Huaminca for every 3 minutes the game has passed and 1 Experienced Quechua Bolas Warrior for every 5 minutes the game has passed, up to 30 minutes. Those units gain +5% attack and HP for every 10 minutes the game has passed, up to 30 minutes. Increases the HP of your normal Quechua warriors by 10%. Why: It delivers 2 unique units at different times so you can pull this tech at an “odd minute” and still benefit from it. At best it gives you 10 Huaminca and 6 Bolas (1240f, 450w) with +15% atk/HP. It’s definitely a late game tech (it mimics the time that has passed for the “Ayllu heritage” to kick in) but to compensate these Experienced warriors are stronger and your common units get a small HP buff. Lore:The ayllu, a family clan, is the traditional form of a community in the Andes, especially among Quechuas and Aymaras. The Inca Army was also composed by nobles and common men and every Inca soldier carried a different kind of weapon according to his origin in the ayllu. Inca army - Wikipedia Ayllu - Wikipedia Ayllu | Encyclopedia.com
In treaty mode for teams, native TPs are usually shared so that all team members can get their improvements. If you stop being an ally, do you lose the 20% effect? I mean, is this only for who has control of the TP? It will be good that once investigated it is no longer necessary for others to investigate it and only those who master the TP obtain the greatest benefit.
For yamas there must be a limit in case the player accumulates them.
I assume these 2 enhancements are passive. That is, do they work while you are allied or are they definitive?
edit : oh, you meant that a player destroyes their TP so the teammate can build a new one instead and activate their techs too? Oh, that’s fine then!
If you stop being an ally, do you lose the 20% effect? I mean, is this only for who has control of the TP?
No. And yes…the 20% bonus is solely for the one who activated this technology. If another person uses this tech they’d get 20% bonus too, which would be added to the 5% granted by the time their teammate had used this tech. For a total of 20 +5%= 25%.
I did not think of that. Good point. In the old Fan patch, Sioux would get 1 bison for every economic shipment scaling with the age ( discovery age shipments =1 bison, Industrial age shipments= 4 bisons) . And it worked greatly considering each one had 500f. I believe it’s more of a matter of balancing how much food the llama would carry.
The one thing that could be set to limit is the Imperial age reset (it would not be counted) and a max limit as you had said.
Don’t take it off, it’s fine. If the bonus mostly benefits the ally with the natives, it seems to me an excellent idea because it makes the alliance more beneficial to the owner of the TP.
I say this for those civilizations that do not need to kill them to benefit from it, as Japan and India.
they are not going to change the cards, because andes is the standard treaty map at high levels precisely because of the speed training improvement the incas give.
It’s not changing, it’s adding more. And why would it be bad for treaty?
You can only build Trading posts after the treaty is over, so for the llamas, that would mean 200food with every card you’d send from that point onwards.
For the build speed bonus I can remove the team bonus (it’s confusing anyway). But in treaty everything is up by the 40min marks so, how impactful vills building a bit faster be by that point?
Genuinely questioning you because I’m not experienced in Treaty mode. I see both effects being more beneficial to Supremacy than Treaty. Can you explain me?
the current bonus is to building UNITS faster, they also have a really useful one that makes all infantry significantly faster.
being able to train units 25% faster is significant, it makes you able to almost instantly replenish your unit and it enables weaker factions like the ottoman to keep their mass up.
What are you talking about? I really don’t understand. My proposed effect is improving the building time of buildings. It has nothing to do with units.
In treaty everything is already built upon reaching 40 min (you’d probably just build what was destroyed by enemies). Isn’t unit training speed powerful there because players already have fencing school/riding school and such?
The tech is:
Quechuan Diet
250 food,250c
Effect
Infantry and cavalry train time -15%
There are cards that help up to 65% and Cree Textile Craftsmanship speeds up all buildings by 25%, on top of making them cheaper. I genuinely can’t understand what you are trying to explain to me.
You are saying that 20% is too much or that Inca would be stacked with faster units + faster build times?
I’ve NEVER said anything about replacing a single tech of Quechua’s: No one here is proposing that unless it is said so. The names are not even the same and it’s even written new techs above them!
You misread something but nevermind: that’s already past.
And I’m glad you gave feedback about Treaty anyway because I’ve removed walls and defensive buildings from the effect. So I’m grateful!
Other changes that would significantly improve native allies for civilizations without access to gunpowder and arsenal technologies such as the Aztecs and Incas, but that the native town itself would have access to.
Explain better in my forum, but basically it is this:
.
