It pains me to see my favorite civ getting left behind.
the Mongols might currently be struggling as one of the weakest civilizations in the game, and here’s why:
- Ineffective Towers in Mid to Late Game: Mongol towers offer minimal value as the game progresses, making them far less effective in mid to late-game scenarios.
- FFA Mongols are lacking any late game defenses when it comes to keep spam or wall spam. → Make trebs cost 1 pop.
- Keshik Limitations: Keshiks lose one-on-one against nearly all other knight variants, making them less effective in III and IV key battles.
- Mangudai Issues: While Mangudai are strong against spearmen, their utility against other units is hindered due to pathing problems and other challenges.
- Trouble in Fights: Even with superior numbers, Mongols often struggle to win fights, leading to a reliance on raiding villagers to cripple the enemy’s economy.
- Castle Age Struggles: Strategies like the Castle Age power play with MAA and rushing over TCs, which used to be viable, seem much less effective in the current meta.
- Booming Gameplay Disadvantage: As the meta has shifted toward booming, Mongols suffer more than other civs due to their inability to horsemen and spear poke enemy, particularly against TCs with increased defensive range.
- Booming Inefficiency: Even with 3 TCs, Mongols can’t match the booming speed of civs like English, French, HRE, or China. This essentially leaves them with a small window of early-game opportunity to mount a successful attack.
- Weaker Siege Options: Mongol siege units fall short compared to HRE’s culverins or Rus’ springald and mangonel spam. I’ve even experienced this firsthand in an FFA match with a 400-max population limit versus opponents capped at 250.
- Stone upgrades are also getting out-dated, offering 10% extra doesn’t seem to make a difference, even though spending a lot of stone. Proposal to change upgrades so that it is possible to go full offensive or defensive.
- Game play mechanics investing IV-age-up resources to siege should have way more impact than what it has now. For instance, if building 4 trebs or mangos on field should obliterate enemy arhers or keeps. But if only having 4 mangos or trebs doesn’t seem to make a significant difference
And lastly after the release of new DLC civs it has become even more difficult to block enemy eco-booming due to reliable resources and plentyful resources near TC.
2 Likes
I’d like to see a new melee cavalry unit for the Mongols. Maybe focused on extra damage against armored units, that would be nice.
Mongols are not as weak as everybody makes them to be theyre just harder than most civs and most people cant play them as you have to be full aggro early as mongols are strongest in the early game
And all of those “issues” you listed fit the civ and fixing those would strip the civilization of its identity
Mongol units being weaker than knights from other civs and relying in hit run and raiding ? Well thats true to history as they would just exactly do that bait enemy army to spliit and raid villages and run away before the big army was organized
Mongols are early aggression civ that should fall off in late game just like in history
cuz they were nomadic and didnt establish big powerfull economy and cities like other civilizations
theyre supposed to lose in late game if they dont do damage
also who cares about ffa , it shouldnt be even mentioned when talking about balance
also talking about ffa and team games mangudai are broken in it
i hope they never buff this civ cuz its still strong in good hands on open maps if it gets buffed its just gonna get stupid and annyoing quickly as those type of civs are always either stupidly op and annyoing for everyone to play against or considered underpowered like if they get buffed they just gonna autowin on open maps the only issue theyre having is on closed maps
Also their wr seems to be doing fine on literally all elos
52 % average wr
and 50 % in conqueror IV
so how it is underperforming ? lol its literally doing good People got too used to civ being just broken i guess
Mongols for sure have their own mechanics, but it doesn’t mean they cannot be balanced. The same tower and Feudal gameplay can be done by many other civs also. My point is that Mongols become lackluster after Age III and for sure in Age IV. They lack economy even with trade when comparing to these new passive gold mechanics that DLC civs have. So, what happens is that you need to spend more on eco and less on military to match the numbers. Stone upgrades, for instance, are not giving the impact that they should. Stone is a very scarce resource, so you would expect more benefit when spending it on upgrades.
Of course, Mongols are good in 1v1, but this turtle-boom meta is making the game unfun when max population 200 can be reached.
1 Like
yet they ar econsistently ranked as a low tier civ among the top players in AoE4.
While I do not agree with OP’s idea fully.
Mongol’s do have some serious weaknesses that needs be fixed.
That being the lack of defensive structures and walls.
While I am a firm advocate of never give the mongols walls.
SOMETHING needs to be given to compensate the lack of walls in their defensive games.
Stronger towers is one thing I would like to see.
Perhaps not a stronger tower from the get go, but allow upgrades to boost the tower strenght as the game goes on.
Another thing would be increased garrison slots in their TC, heck even being able to upgrade emplacement on their TC’s would be nice. That way TC’s could serve as a “keep” for the mongols, but a keep with the fraction of the HP than a regular keep has.
Again, something that is upgradable in the later stages of the game.
And something needs to be seriously done about the Khaganate Palace landmark.
Atm Mongols just has to many negatives that outweighs their Benefits.
You think mongol is bad? OTD is so unfinished that, there is no reason to go imperial. Like think about it. What is the tradeoff for OTD to spend the $$$ for imperial? A town center? They even nerfed elzbech palace!
and what does this have to do with the issues mongols have in the game?
Sure OOTD has their problems that needs to be adressed.
Just because 1 civ is gimped, dosn’t mean all Civs should be gimped.
instead of gimping, one should uplift the weaker civs to match the stronger civ in strenght if possible.
I totally agree with you about walls, but something needs to be done for the defending. I don’t quite understand why they nerfed deerstone aura. When you don’t have anything else to defend with than your army, you should at least have faster movement speed to roam around. I also hate the direction the game has headed, earlier it was easy to harrass with dark age units, but now TC range and targeting is really making it impossible
It’s already a problem that in the Post-Imperial Age, the Mongols have so much stone that they can build not only Wonders, but even several “Fortified outpost with Cannons”, if one is careless to let them has enough traders.
If they were given Stone Walls or better towers, without any debuff, they would be the best defensive civ in the game with so much stone, which would be UNREAL and SURREAL.
Considering that since Lancaster any crazy technology is possible: Early Handcannoners, Demilancer levies in feudal*, a solution would be:
Kharakorum walls.- You switch to “sedentary life” and can produce walls, but you lose several bonuses:
- “Population returns to 0”, yurts now occupy 10 population
- Stone costs for X2 Units or improved technologies replaced by “Extra Gold”.
- All your stone is converted into 50% gold.
- You lose the extra stone bonus for destroying buildings or trade, replaced by an extra 50% gold in all quantities.
- Villagers gain the ability to gather stone.
At least this way it would be balanced, and well, we could represent Mongol cities well.
Just pay attention that only way to get stone is techically raiding-IV and trading, which is easy to interupt and requires techs first, which also cost stone if you want to get most out of it.
I was pointing out lackluster late game units and scaling in eco wise.
Only way to scale as mongols is to disrupt enemy eco. As beasty stated that mongols is really worst civ when it comes to eco. Losing one vil in start production due to microing TC and tower rushing enemy resources seems to be the only way to come on top.