Mongols change idea

This is by no means an original idea, but it’s something I came up with today as a modification of other people’s ideas.

A lot of people think that Nomads should be replaced or rolled into the civ as a bonus, since it is a weak technology that does little. It has its uses, such as when you’re low on space and want room for production buildings, but it would be much better as a free bonus. The issue is that replacing it would risk making the Mongols way too strong, as their new UT would have to be more useful.

Here’s my idea:

  • Make Nomads a civ bonus applying from the start of the game, and also add TCs to the effect.

  • Remove the Light Cavalry line and Steppe Lancer HP bonus.

  • New UT: Golden Horde (Scout line and Steppe Lancers +40% HP)

I had to make Golden Horde’s effect a bit better than the original bonus, since it’s no longer free and you need a Castle for it, but the net total power should remain relatively the same. It doesn’t affect Mongol early aggression anyway, since the original bonus didn’t affect Scouts, only Light Cavalry and Hussars; therefore, not much about the power of the civ would change, while also getting Nomads for free from the start of the game.

I think it’d be a good change. What do you think?


I think it’s a huge neutering of the civ. admittedly I almost wish the bonus partially worked on scout cavarly even if only from Feudal on.

Mongols arent the S tier civ they used to be


How would you suggest buffing them while also eliminating the useless Nomads tech, potentially making it a civ bonus?

If the scout HP being even partially available in Feudal is too much then Im not sure. If theres a bonus that feels meager is the Cav Archer rof when you are NEVER going all in on CA when Mangudai exist.

If anything little would change if the attack speed was baked into the Mangudai

Maybe my Golden Horde technology can also include an HP increase for Cavalry Archers.

It is indeed too much. Franks have it and it is too strong. It punishes almost all other scout openings despite having better food bonus, or at least can go toe to toe until Bloodlines. Mongols have one of the fastest early game food bonus and bloodlines on top. It is not even a possibility to consider extra HP on scouts for Mongols unless you nerf their eco bonus. And if you nerf their eco bonus, then they are just dead.

Good point. However, Mongols is the OG “Cavalry Archer” civ. Defining a civ only with its UU will be bad imho. They can get a small CA bonus like regeneration. Obviously doesn’t apply to Mangudai. Maybe apply to SL as well.

Sipahi on ######## No thanks. Then Turks UT need to be changed.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Shucks.

Yeah taking something Mongols had for free and putting it behind a castle and tech to research, and swapping it out with the nomads effect is a straight nerf, and to a classic civ that is traditionally seen as a fun civ with Mangudai I think would be an issue. Yes Nomads is kinda useless most of the time but not every tech needs to be super useful. I think maybe a replacement tech that would buff their melee cav, but otherwise just leave Mongols as-is IMO. And tbh i’d prefer leaving them as-is.


Mongols should have a unique hussar upgrade.

Huh…that’s an intriguing idea…

Yeah but I don’t see it has any utility until very late game as you’d rather have houses as your walls then being open.

Now Georgians have regenerating light cavalry, my idea of LC, SL and CA (excluding Mangudai) regenerate 15HP/min became very bad looking.

If anything that helps its utility in early game, you use houses in the wall and if the enemy takes out a house to break through; NBD you won’t get pop-blocked because of it.

What about mule cart? Would be nice for Huns too.

Yeah. I missed that situation.