Moors and Berbers

Moors would be an easy civi to make also ME buildings(castle and wonder is unique obviously) king and monk speak saracen rest of the units berber.

I am against it because the term “Moors” is not a consensus term. There is no “Moorish civilization”.

The term refers to a set of civilizations that differ according to the period and the person/country who designates them.

Moreover, the term “Moors” seems to be used only by Europeans to designate civilizations that do not consider themselves as such.

Qui étaient les Maures ? | National Geographic).

Saracens Berber are all european terms so why cant we have moors?

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North Africans do call themselves as Berbers. Even Arabs and natives at North Africa interchangeably called themselves as Berbers. I think its somewhat fine compared to Moors and Saracens. Moors accurately refers to Mauritania than Andalusian one.

When i think moors and Berbers I think not just of camel forces but of the armored spear obsessed blackguard.

Personally I always thought if there was ever a civ that could be designed to specifically be called Anti-cavalry it would be Berbers or Moors.

So great Halbs and Camels. Force that Sicilian and Frank player to go for his UU.

Something like this:

-Camels 20% faster. Possibly receives camel scout to capitalize.
-Redemption, Theocracy free
-Spearmen +1 melee armor per age (3 total)
-Villagers carry +10 food (kinda thrown in but it works)
TB: Trade units +2/2 armor

UU: Blackguard - If a Teutonic Knight was less of a swordsman and more of a spearman…

Amazigh - Villagers Cav Archers, Bpackguard and Scouts move 10% faster and are immune to conversion

Iberian Conquest - all units +1 damage vs all armor types.

Missing Techs
Barracks: Champion, Eagle Scout, Gambesons
Archery Range: Arbalest, Elite Skirmisher
Stable: Battle Elephant, Paladin, Steppe Lancer, Hussar
Siege: Siege Onager, Siege Ram, Elephant
Blacksmith: /
University: /
Dock: Dry Docks, Dromon
Monastery: Heresy, Sanctity
Economy: Two Man Saw, Crop Rotation

Not the most balanced but for a ten minute writeup…

Berbers were a real existing civilisation not a mix of several civilisation like Moors. Saracens should me splitted according to me.

Here an interesting post Split the Saracens?

Maybe if they make a dlc of the Reconquista, dividing Spanish into Castilians, Aragonese and Moors/Andalusians it could be…

IDK if splitting Berbers into Moors is necessary. But if you want to represent Al-Andalus,

instead of having weaker bonus of already existing bonuses, I think you should try more university bonus. Also free Ballistic has the potential to be broken in some pro games.

No need.

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But new bonuses shouldnt be a worse (nor better) version of other existing bonuses. It should be a trade off

Something like units being 5% or 10% cheaper would be better


This is my idea:

Team Bonus

Blacksmith and University gives +10 population space.

Civilization Bonus

  • Created villager gives 5 gold.
  • University techs cost -60% wood.
  • Genitour fires 25% faster. (Since Berbers will get a new TB, Dravidians and Mongols will lose this bonus).

Unique Unit

Can be kept same as OP.

Unique Technologies

  1. Knight line food cost -50%.
  2. LC +3 PA.

Tech Tree

Missing techs

Barracks - Supplies, Gambeson, Squires, Champion
Range - PT, EA
Stable - Bloodlines, Paladin, SL, BE
Siege Workshop - SO, SR
Blacksmith - Plate mail armor, Blast Furnace.
University - Heated Shot.
Castle - Sapper, Hoardings.
Eco - Crop Rotation, Gold Shaft Mining.
Monastery - Herbal Medicine, Faith, Illumination.
Dock - Fast Fire Ship, Dry Dock.

I’ve touched on this topic as part of the wider Saracens split topic on my last comment of this thread

Take a read if you’re intrested

I just want the genitour to be regional.

Also, the moors are an umbrella term with no ethnological value. They were not any one people or culture, even indian Muslims were called moors.

For the west all nomads were tatars even mongols so is moors such a bad term?

Moors just means Muslims. We already have the Saracens and their bullshit to worry about.

And it’s not about the name, it’s about the fact it’s meaningless. There is no such thing as a single Moorish civilization, it’s an umbrella term for all Muslims.

The only shared trait between the peoples that were called moors is that they were Muslim, it’s not like with Celts or the Huns, or the Slavs, where it’s a group of closely related cultures that form a greater cultural family. Creating a civilization called Moors is like creating a civilization called Infidels that encompasses every country that has ever gone on a Crusade.

Which is why we hate the Saracens being a shitty umbrella civ too.

Didnt arabs call all the crusaders franks?

The Georgians did the same thing, I believe.

These Moors specifically represent just the North African and Iberian Arab Muslims.

That’s just Arabs and Berbers, and we already have Berbers. So that leaves Arabs, which are already represented by the Saracen in the game. Which to me is just more reason to split the Saracens up between Arabs and Mamluks.

Mamlukes are not a civilization either they are just turkic military ruling over the local population.