More balance concerns "Yawns"

  • Farms are too cheap. At 50w a piece and supporting 3 vills you can basically get 150w mill or a plantation which you can switch for 9 vills meanwhile most other civs have 400w mills/farms/paddies and 600w plantations. Did anybody actually think of the cost or just grabbed a random number from the air?

  • African Outlaws are too strong for all civs, especially non musketeer civs like dutch and germany. Dutch can open musk/skirm in most MU’s and its too strong. The units train too fast, and are individually too strong.

  • African civs are just absolutely broken on livestock maps. Now this isnt saying that the maps are broken, more like this eco bonus of africa is just too polarising on maps with livestock as compared to other civs on livestock map. Anybody test ethiopia on mongolia yet lol.

  • Are berbers meant to train endless salt mines after each 1 is built and depleted? Also berber captain able to train zennata riders seems a bit too strong.



This might be a mistake I’m not sure, this is really strong for any civ that wants to stay in base for a while

Yeah they nerfed them but I don’t think they nerfed them very well, age 2 musk with 20% range resist and super easy to mass early age 2 is a bad idea

That would be OP because with the starting 100 gold if you get lucky and get a 25 gold treasure or more than you can buy food and age super fast, also the water buffaloes are everywhere.

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They could apply the japan treatment and spawn with less cows on livestock maps.

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The fields do take up a lot more space than mills, you need to remember also that african civs lack the strongest late game eco cards(require several cards to reach the level of royal mint/refrigeration) and lack factories, so it’s perfectly fair that the transition to mills be slightly easier for them.

Maybe they can limit the amount of livestock found on the map that can be placed on the market or just not allow found livestock to be tasked to the market.

I believe berbers are meant to be able to retrain the mine, which I see no issue with as the mine gathers far slower than a regular mine, and theirs a max of 20 villagers on it, plus you need to buy it and choose that age up option, sacrificing the benefits of another.
Plus let’s be honest, no one even builds that it just doesn’t make sense in 99% of games.

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i think so, you have to keep in mind only 20 villagers can gather from 1 and their gather rate is pretty low at base, maybe if you have silversmith and royal mint it might be worth it but otherwise its just a cheap unupgraded plantation.

No they aren’t, No Stockyards, no fulling mills. They can’t really exploit them any more than european civs can. And you wouldn’t be selling livestock any more than you would otherwise due to exchange rates dropping.

African outlaws are strong, but all european and asians civs get them on african map. Map geography is part of the game.

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Of course it is lol considering they get given a livestock pen for free to kick off their game. Hausa on non livestock maps typically send 4 cows for the early game rush. Also you dont need to send livestock cards to eat or instantly sell to get resources to pump straight into your unbeatable rush.

well you cant make african outlaws as euro civs on american maps but the african civs still hold their african outlaw units even on non-america maps. And hence is a competetive balance concern.

Yeah so I have to disagree with you on both counts there


Agreed on the outlaws and livestock, Hausa is very strong if you get a few extra livestock, maybe could be fixed by reducing the amount of livestock that can be at a livestock market to 5 or 7 to reduce the effect of fattening or selling (also maybe a timer for selling multiple livestock in a row.

on the fields, I think they are balanced for the trade off (slower build time, have to be around a granary) and from what I have seen they also move around like on an euro building, so their gather rate is kinda dogshit, the lack of upgrade cards also means that their lategame eco is very bad on fields.

additional note: Hausa rush currently hard counters china in every possible way since you can get rushed while china is still aging to age 2

yeah i think players now know how the rush is from the hausa side you might see civs cutting vills super early to age on time to have 2 unit batches made by then. I dont really see how china can defend itself as they wont have the res to start a batch from the rax, castles are expensive and that they still probably need 2 villages in age 1 otherwise they will get hard pop capped after hausa cav sieges down the villages.

I have managed to win a game against a hausa rush as china albeit not the fastest it can be. It did require some major changes to a china build.

You need a market start in order to age up faster, CM + age up with porcelain tower for eco that can’t be idled + wood for villages and castles, had to slowly mass up and take trades until the opponent stalled. I think starting with russian consulate can be good here since the blockhouse can provide both fire support and pop space.

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ur concern are not logical ,

  1. african farms gather ar slower rate , that fix them , also they take too much space , u cant protect vill from raid with that much space to cover.
  2. outlaws are expensive and for african civ they cost 2 pop that make them ineffective in mass and their cost make them hard to rush with .
    3.salt mine is absolutly balanced , u get infinitye salt mine but it gather 33% slower , u never want to use salt mine if u have other mines available .
    zennata rider is costly and pop ineffective .