Mongols always start with advantage and they can take control of the map very early (even in dark age) and with tower rush they can isolate resources. The main reason is double production and cheaper spears available in dark age.
Lets just move Barracks to Feudal Age for mongols. Mongols already have access to horsemen in Dark Age. And it makes sense that Mongols are cav civ. This will fix tower rush as well. They just can’t fill their towers with cheap spears and still hold against knights/horsemen in Feudal Age. It will also encourage mongols to focus more on aging up than Dark Age aggression because the more they delay their age up the harder it will be for them to counter horsemen or knights in Age 2.
This will mostly balance mongol civ on its own. And it also makes sense for civilization and will add more asymmetry to civs.
Why not move Mongolian villagers to the feudal age so they can’t TR in the dark age.
Problem is Ovvo
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he problem with moving the barracks to the feudal age is that the technology to improve the spearman is free to them
I agree that the production of ovoo should be reduced
This is not a bad idea. The Mongols are counterintuitively an excellent infantry civ. Moving the barracks to Feudal would in theory kill two birds with one stone: feature cav for Mongols early, and delay the double spear spam.
Yes exactly. Mongols are not infantry civ at first place. They already have access to stable. They can still tower rush but they won’t be able to mass units, fill their tower and on top of that opponent will be able stop tower construction with his spears as spears counter horsemen. So it will come down to scouting your opponent. At this point, even if you scout you still cannot counter mongols as they will have larger spear mass and you have nothing to counter spears in Dark age.
I think ovoo needs to be more expensive so they have to chop wood to build it. Make it cost like 175 or 180 wood. Another option is making the yam network affect military units only and not villagers because right now its pretty much almost a free wheel barrow
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I agree with your nerf. I am not saying my solution totally fixes mongols but it makes most sense for stopping unstoppable early aggression.
the problem is the ovoo
you nerf their rax, they will still have the predominant issue with infantry later on
imo they should nerf their eco, mongol’s eco is way too strong, and possibly buff their cav to cater for it(eg mangudai, khans aura in later stages of the game etc), you then end up with what they shouldve been all a long… a cav civ. not an eco civ.
currently they are like the vikings or chinese(even the mesos or franks to some extent) from aoe2. extremely dominant due to eco, due to almost nothing else. everything else is a symptom of their eco
if they had an extremely mediocre eco, the khan wouldnt be such an issue, because they would be on the back foot anyway
if they had an extremely mediocre eco, trushing wouldnt be such an issue because they wouldnt be able to afford everything to apply the pressure
a nerfed eco would mean the use of their unique mechanics would help level the field instead of further elevating them (aka winning more)
Yes, the ovoo remains, but other civs would have counters or be able to match production in Feudal. For example, Delhi and China can supervise production. French have school of cav.
All other civs would know only horseman can drush them.
If they reduced the ovoo base gathering rate for stone, that would also limit how fast they can be double produced. Later techs can boost stone.
I agree with you. Very good idea. No more tower rush
eh, i get that mongols are meant to be cavalry focused by to me the idea any civ would be unable to muster guys with pointy sticks in the dark age is very suspect, i feel the same about english not having them tbh. i feel like it should be the one unit everyone gets in age 1. as an aside i think units that a civ doesn’t get until a later age should have to pay for the higher tier upgrades (ie make english start with basic spearmen in feudal rather than hardened)
The Mongols should get spears in age 1 in theory, but moving the barracks to feudal really addresses two problems with the Mongols in 1v1 play:
- Very powerful infantry rush (or archer or horseman)
- Not a cavalry civ
But still it can be countered. If you are scouting opponent properly. Archer + Horsemen rush will be pushed back by Spears + Archer combination. You can also wall critical points to restrict their movement. You can use spears to gain early map control against mongols and secure resources. It opens a lot of possibilities.