The musketeer is not able to compete with the dragoon as a cheaper alternative. Dragoons have naturally a better hit and run advantage being a calvary. Both units have a short range attack of 12 and a bonus against hand cav. So pretty equal in their overall function. However, dragoons have also a +2 range tech available in the arsenal (“Ranged Cavalry Caracole”), which sets these two unit types even further apart. In a face off between musketeers and dragoons, the musketeers should at least get a shot off. For example: In a matchup between skirmishers and crossbows, the more expensive unit gets the first shot due to longer range, but the crossbows will get the second shot, because they have the same speed as the skirms.
I suggest therefore that musketeers should also receive a tech (+2 range) in the arsenal or via home city cards to equal out the range disadvantage, because the speed and hitpoint difference between musketeers and dragoons will of course remain.
Musketeers didn’t need the extra range in the past (almost) 20 years and they still don’t need it now.
id rather goons get a bit of a reigning in (maybe skirms do better vs them?) than make musk falc z moving more potent tbh. Besides its only a few goons (port, usa, lakota) that really can be cost effective into eq res of musk assuming they cant kite forever
When standing and fighting Musketeers beat Dragoons due to pop efficiency. You’ll notice even some of the best Goon civs hardly use them in treaty (Dutch being an exception).
I get that the micro on skirm/goon isn’t insanely difficult, but it’s harder than Musk/falc so I’m okay with there being some advantages to skirm/goon overall. Greater risk = greater reward, and some units will rip skirm goon up if they get fully engaged. That can be a question of seconds of not paying attention to your army. Musks are generally a lot more durable.
Having said that, I could fathom it being good for a hypothetical civ with a broken unit roster (ie full of holes), kinda like Sweden who get Snaplock. Who knows what Poland and Denmark will look like, I could imagine one or both of them getting some fancy musks.
Danes are definitely getting fancy musk. 100% sure. Just dont know if their design will be as iconic and badass as Caroleans. Tough competition and Sweden… Is a civ that comes with the game. NOT A DLC.
This post was brought to you by Musketeer power creep. Thanks Japan, India, USA and Mexico.
Do Ports even get anything besides range? Other stats should be on the same level as mexico/Brits and France has them cheaper with a little less stats
Stat wise:
Maxed Portuguese Dragoons have the attack and HP as British Dragoons.
British:
Brits get 15% attack, and 15% hp, from two in age 2, and 15/15% in age 3.
Portuguese:
Ports get 20/20% in age 3 with Dragoon Combat and an extra 10/10% with Guard.
Portuguese then get +4 range in age 4.
French:
As you said, French get a single 15/15% in age 3, and a 15% discount in age 4. A discount kinda acts as a real-stats boost as opposed to a base-stats boost, but a discount doesn’t add pop efficiency.
Comparison:
It’s worth noting that the Portuguese can tech into maxed Dragoons with one less card and only about an extra 500 res. That counts the extra range.
The British can actually get better Dragoons in age 3, though that costs 3 cards. These cards also help Hussars.
The French can also tech into Dragoons for less than the British can by only needing two cards. I think there’s an argument that French Dragoons are better than British ones.
Edit:
You mentioned Mexico:
Mexico get a 15/15% in age 3, a 5% damage or hp card in age 1, 5% speed in age 3, and 10-15% from the jesuit allies. I think there might be one other, but overall it’s a fairly expensive unit to max out for Mexico. You’re probably stopping with +25% damage, 15% hp, and 5% speed over an uncarded Dragoon.
I mean they have goons with effective + 30/30% stats like you said (goon combat plus royal guard) but nothing special outside of the range. that range does make them incredible in team games since they can win the goon war or much easier raid. tbh i dont think its op in most modes, but i can see some issue it creates in teams especially as musk are kind of mid in teams for a lot of civs
But for the sake of vs musketeer comparison i was just noting musk are a soft counter for goons sans those with either consistently long range or units with insane dps like bow rider can be. most goons do not get their money back shooting it out with musk, so buffing musk would just make musk more strong without solving the likely issue they have vs specific goons. if that makes sense
I always go Jesuits so it’s only the 500res card that’s a problem but Mexico doesn’t really go for goons anyway since other options are easier to buff and cuatreros exist.
Port dragoons are the best because of the extra range. There is no comparison to brits or french.
I was answering a question. Obviously the range is very good.