# Muslim Berries are they really faster than sheep?

Quick Answer to the question is YES, berries are faster gathering than sheep; period.

HOWEVER, even though the active gather rate of Muslim berries are faster than sheep active gathering rate; one should consider the initial walk time per villager from TC to berries! Most berries spawn 6+ tiles away from TC and villager displayed walk speed is 1.12 tiles/s (I’ve seen parse sites that suggests the speed is actually 1.125 tiles/s so I’ll be using that speed); this means each vil that spawn from the TC has initial idle time of 6+ tiles divide by walk speed (5.33+ s).

How long? would it take for 1 villager to spawn from the TC, walk 6 tiles to berries, be gathering nearest the mill to catch and surpass food gathered by another villager that spawns immediately on a sheep carcass directly under the TC?

Quick answer again for those that don’t care for the math is 41.6s.

Now this the section that want to repeat the experiment and/or verify the maff!

ASSUMPTION:
In game replay clock is accurate even at 1/4 speed.
my ability to pause and play adds less than 1s error
I assume the active gathering starts when villagers hit their knees (which is my start and stop points)

OBTAIN GATHER RATES:
With the sheep directly under the TC I measured sheep gather rate at 10F/15s.
With villager gathering on the berry bush side that is closest to the mill I measured berry gather rate at 13F/17s

MAFF:
R1= berry gather rate; R2= sheep gather rate; t= time; Idle= initial walk time;

R1 ( t - idle) >= R2 ( t ) ; solving for t and you get 41.6s

FINAL NOTES:
Berries eventually outperforms sheep, however info like this is critical on age up timings IFF you could have met your food requirement in less than ~42s of that villager(s) being created. Also keep in mind when villagers walk to drop off point they also tend to run into each other when attempting to position around the resource (more idle time). AND the close berry bush WILL NOT LAST FOREVER? So it’s safe to assume the further berries from the mill will take even longer than 42 seconds to catch up and surpass carcass under the TC. ANDD… you’re not gonna keep ALL those villager still gathering food once you hit food requirement for age up? sooo more idle time walking from far berries to wood? gold? stone? extra??

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I didn’t do the maths, but, you have to consider that muslim has +3 collect to berries also, so this time you are talking is not affecting negative.

When I age up as Abbasid I put 7 on berries and 4 on gold, then I age up perfectly balanced, getting 400 and 200 gold at the same time. When I am using other non muslim civ (and not HRE), I have to put 8 on food then 4 on gold to get the same timing.

Then, I think yes, berries are better than sheeps for muslims.

And, there’s something more to take into account, berries, for being more exposed than the sheeps, are better to be collected first, then you turn into safe sheeps if someone is attacking you.

On the con, if you spot an enemy scout, you can’t snipe him like some others civs do putting the villagers on sheeps in the TC fast.

… Not only did NOT prove your math… you didn’t debunk mine?

hmmm whats berry gather rate at 13FOOD PER 17s means to you?? ppl love to jump on the forum and spew inaccurate info

Yours is wrong since you haven’t taken into account the more carrying capacity, that reduces the idle time, and you haven’t taken into account the 7 villagers smashing the same sheep at the same time.

If you want to measure this more accurate, just take abbasid and go to feudal, same build order, but with berries and with sheeps, then check times.

Did a lot of times, and while I need 8 on sheeps and it delays my feudal (plus it’s safer the sheeps and I prefer to take them if enemy is pushing me), I just need 7 on berries.

In fact, im going to make the test, and go to feudal as abbasid, same build order, but with sheeps and with berries. Hold 15 min.

@Shneider177

as abbasid:

• Berries: 7 food, 4 gold, 4:03
• Sheeps without micro villagers: 8 food, 4 gold 4:23
• Sheeps microeing villagers: 8 food, 4 gold 4:15

And I can improve a bit the berries, microeing the villagers.

The only con I can see of taking the berries is not being able to snipe enemy scout, but you are collecting riskier resources in less time, and letting sheeps to a push situation.

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@joanka93val dude just leave this forum post alone, you are utterly clueless to specific of this thread.

I just empirical proved you were wrong, no needs of maths. It’s wise to accept you just were wrong. There’s nothing bad about it.

But, you can’t just say something like “people just like to spew unaccurate info”, after post a long and wrong math development, then I do the test, and you pretend to ban me from this post, simply because you didn’t like what you have read, because it contradicts what you say.

I just wanted to share my opinion, because I am main abbasid, and I tried multiple times to collect sheeps and berries, being berries better than sheeps. But you didn’t accept my answer, despite it was based in my experience and not in invent maths, nor accepted my test, because accepting it would require to accept your maths aren’t right.

@joanka93val dude you are emphatically clueless to what i mentioned in this thread? So time to get pedantic.

Did you even understand the permise of this thread? Very little of what you’ve mention even directly interacts with the ideas i presented??? Heck the one thing you keep mentioning:

These quotes are utterly wrong? I stated that the measured gathering rate for berries was 13 food per 17s. Again that is 10 + 3 berry food (that plus 3 from extra carrying. ??? The thing you keep stupidly saying I’m not account for??huh???) Per 17 seconds .

You start of by admitting you didn’t do the math… but then end your post with “empirical evidence” proving me wrong…kekw; what exactly were you even correcting?

You dedicated a whole useless post on how you got a faster age up with berries qs oppose to sheep??? Where did i suggest sheep was faster than berries? I literally started the thread answering that question first?

You clearly didnt understand the nuisance of my thread.

It depends how far the berries are from the mill, but on average they are the same rate as the sheep.

Your thread is simply nonsense, because as @HasanIchess states, considering rate, walking time, etc… They are more or less the same for a muslim civilization.

Only con is not being able to snipe enemy scout, but the pro is you are gathering a riskier resource. Other con may be you have to spend 50 wood on mill.

Dude chill, you take things too seriously.

the wheelbarrow compensates the berries that are far from the mill, in general the rate is very good

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Here are your numbers, I am not going to do it again and take screenshots, enjoy your thread, all for you.