My first ever balance suggestion on Militia line

Monks and camels are pretty good for support. Monks can heal knight when they escape/return from combat. Camels act as meatshield and deal with cav/mangonel to protect xbow.

You will need quite a big number for that unit to be effective compared to xbow/knight.

I don’t think toughness will work for that line anyway. It’s too far from it and we would need do redesign it entirely.
And that spot is also already taken by eles.

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I’ll sit down and sometimes play LS strategies like DauT :slight_smile:

Its by design. Their infantry is weaker vs melee but harder to kill for ranged. You could actually even justify removing iron casting but not the last p.armor

And that’s fine. Its ok to give them gambesons too but I just don’t think its necessary.

Oh. Didn’t realize it was already that tanky.

Independent from the Topic itself I currently see a “path” for the milita line which looks like this:

  1. Gneral adjustment - balance changes that make the line utilizable at all stages of the game. Like in this thread.

  2. Add a new Archery style Infantry counter and a new Infantry Archer counter. At the same time. I generally think it would be better if the Archer unit also generally counters the Infantry unit, but it’s also thinkable the other way around

  3. Adjust the cost of the Militia line (more gold Intensive) and add a speciality they can leverage against the other power units. We will probably have some funcitoning ideas for this by then.

We don’t need to specifically add a trash unit that pairs well with the militia line. As depending on the opponents choices it should oair decently with Siege, Skirms, Halbs and the new counter units mentioned above.

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We need at least one gold-intensive unit pair with militia-line.

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The line itself would be more gold intensive. But also the pariing with Siege is indeopendent on that.

I though also about a potential combination of cavalry and the militia line. But it doesn’t really makes a good synergy in the game

What ???
Champions are better than JW in term of cost effectivity, better against buidlings and better against light cavalry. The Aztecs biggest problem is weakness to canon powder civs so faster JW will not help much.

In that case -

  1. Is Fereteres under priced?
  2. Is +1 attack more important than +20 HP for militia line in Imperial Age?
  3. Is 50 gold so much more expensive than 200 food that it justifies the +1 attack over +20 HP.
  4. Is there any 4th option that I’m missing?

I personally think it is #1 as long as Champion upgrade price is worthy as you trying to imply.

I have no idea what you’re talking about anymore.

It feels to me that you took some of my general assessments that were in the context of the current state of the game and tried to induct them in you civ specific adaptions.

But tbh, whilst respecting your dedication - I don’t think we should discuss the civ specific adaptions here. It will only make stuff convoluted - and I doubt anybody will get that “right” first try anyways. Too much wil have to be adjusted once something like this gets in the game and whilst it’s good to have a starting point like this - it’s almost certain this will be changed very soon after dropped anyways.

So I would like to stay in the general Changes and discuss them in the context of the current and then state of the game.

Okay. I will make it easier for you.

Champion HP 70 → 90. Attack 13 → 12
Now you tell me how much Champion upgrade should cost?

How do we get here?
All I said that in the current state of the game the Champion Upgrade isn’t overpriced.

Also I wouldn’t make it a more impactful upgrade anyways, especially not if the amount of civs with access to it is reduced.

Can you please leave my comments where they are and don’t request from me to assess stuff I wouldn’t even make in the first place?

PS: I wouldn’t care too much about the Champion Upgrade Price tag for now anyways. I would care about the value of the midgame upgrades of the line, cause they are them which actually break the line atm.

Sorry. I think internet toxicity got me in another platform and I carried it over here. I was certainly not clear on my point.

Anyway I’ll end the topic here unless some interesting reply is added.