My Main Preferred Teuton Changes(balanced to a degree and hopefully solidifies their identity) as well as a Lithuanian change


Current bonuses:

Infantry civilization

• Monks healing range 2x
• Towers garrison 2x units
• Murder Holes, Herbal Medicine free
• Farms cost -40%
• Town Center garrison +10
• Barracks and Stable units +1 armor in Castle and Imperial Age (+2 total)

Unique Unit:

Teutonic Knight

Unique Techs:

• Ironclad (siege weapons extra melee armor)

• Crenellations (+3 range Castles
garrisoned infantry fire arrows)

Team Bonus:
Units resist conversion

Suggested bonuses:

Infantry civilization

• Monks healing range 2x
• Towers garrison 2x units
• Murder Holes, Herbal Medicine free
• Farms cost -40%
• Barracks units +1 armor in Castle and +1 pierce armor in Imperial Age
• Town Centers +3 attack range and Garrison +10 in Castle Age

Unique Unit:
Teutonic Knight (infantry)
Crusader Knight(Cavalry)

Unique Techs:

• Ironclad (siege weapons extra melee and pierce armor)

• Crenellations (+3 range Castles
garrisoned infantry fire arrows)

Team Bonus:
Units resist conversion

Tech tree changes:

Add the first scout upgrade
Remove paladin
Cavalier upgrade replaced by Crusader Knight
(Cannot be converted by enemy monks)












(Add unique unit class?)





changed Garrison +10 to Town Centers +3 attack range and Garrison +10 in Castle Age, added pierce armor to Ironclad
Changed the barracks bonus to be +1/1 armor in total and for the bonus to no longer effect stable units, added crusader knight by replacing the cavalier upgrade and removing paladin, added first scout upgrade.


Current Hill forts: Town Centers +3 attack range

Suggested Hill Forts: Town Centers +3 attack range and +2 attack

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Crenelation in Castle age has no counter, totally broken.
Giving them more rounded armor bonus remover ntheie character instead of sharpens it in my opinion.
Removing paladin, giving scout kind just remk es edges from game design, only civ with paladin without husbandry, only civ with just scouts. Next we givw turks pikemen and eskiem but remove hussar. Again this destroy their character.

Giving siege meele and pierce armor is op and again destroy their character more than improves it.they don’t need late game buffs on black forest.

I give these sugesttion an inverse 7/10


The civ is supposed to be anti melee.

This is useless and steals from lithuanians. Also 13 range castles in castle age is busted.

Yes let’s give teuton siege even more buffs.
Come on man.

Yeah let’s take paladins from a civ that has had it since the very beginning and is quite iconic about it.

Because Lithuanians totally need buffs.


Completely agree. These suggestions get a rousing boo from me and I hope they go ignored.


It’s a Teuton bonus that was changed for Lithuanian use with the effect of it coming from a unique tech and less powerful. The +2 attack will give hill forts more use and seperate it from Teutons while giving Teutons a balanced version of their old town center bonus.

The bonus WAS REMOVED back with the release of aoc because for free it was COMPLETELY BROKEN.

And it’s not broken with lithuanians because it requires a castle and a tech.

So no. It wasn’t taken from twutons so lithuanians could have it. It was removed before lithuanians were rven considered.

Lithuanians don’t need buffs and teutons don’t need 13 range castles in castle age. It’s beyond broken.


It was added to Lithuanians due to it being a balanced version and it coming from a tech - the teutons can have a different version from Lithuanians and have a balanced version as well to return them to their roots.

13 range castles is fine, and the price of the tech will balance it and the price can be balanced.

The original devs had limited ability to patch the game and bonuses, they knew what they were doing and played it safe.

But it wasn’t taken from Teutons to give to lithuanians. Which was your claim.

There roots remain as is.

Imagine honestly believing 13 range castles in castle age is balanced.

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Even above all else. Teutons don’t need buffs.


Your claim is that I’m claiming it was stolen from Teutons - that is false.

It was removed from Teutons for good reason, changed to something more balanced / that being said now that a more balanced version has reared its lovely head we now have the ability to reunite Teutons with the original vision which was stifled by limited ability to patch and change the balance as needed.

You did claim that.

Right here you make it sound exactly like they took it explicitly from Teutons to give it to lithuanians. Which is blatantly false.

The "balanced version " is almost never used. Food for thought. It’s a weak unique tech.


The idea of it would be understandable if one only thinks of the original Teuton bonus. It was not stolen from the civ, but it was added to the lithianians with Teutons’s old bonus in mind - but it was not removed from the Teutons for the sake of Lithuanians gaining it later. Again I’m saying that the bonus is back on another civ with an old Teuton bonus that is now balanced yet weak as you’ve said that hardly anyone researches it, so +2 attack would help with that. Crenellations in castle age is fine and adding +3 range to town centers on top of that is the perfect way to return the bonus in a balanced version.

  1. lithuanians don’t need buffs.
  2. teutons don’t need buffs.
  3. 13 range castles in castle age is beyond busted

Hill forts is weak, as you’ve been stating : +2 attack is a perfect remedy for that.

Teutons need changes, not nerfs or buffs.

13 range castles in castle age from a unique tech is very balance-able

And so it’s still a buff for a civ that doesn’t need it.

Why do they need changes? And this is a buff. At least for 1v1 anyway.

No it wouldn’t. Castles are already very hard to take down in castle age as is. This almost doubles how much area you can control with 1 castle.

Defensively the extra range on castles and town centers solidifies the Teuton Identity which was established at the birth of the civilization and changed due to balance reasons with very limited patch-ability-possible-attempts from the very capable original devs. It would be a great boon for the civilization’s original vision for their bonus to make a return in a balanced fashion.

If not with Crenelations then as a stand alone castle age bonus.

A stand alone castle age bonus of extra range is busted. Why do you think it was removed in the first place 20+ years ago.

Because it started much earlier than castle age originally - and as you’ve said -‘hill forts is weak’ giving lithuanians +2 attack will change that into a decent bonus and differentiate it from the Teutons’ weak +3 town center range.

No. It was changed because it shuts down mangonel pressure. Plain and simple.

Furthermore again. Lithuanians do not need buffs. They are a good civ even with a weak castle age unique tech.

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It was changed because of early town center drops.