With the Indian civs having received Siege Elephants and Elephant Archers as regional units, I feel that SE Asian civs also need one. However, instead of proposing something related to elephants, I have another idea.
Introducing the Sumpit Warrior. Sumpits were blowguns used in the Philippines, Borneo, and Sulawesi for hunting and warfare. They usually measured 4 to 6 ft in length, and shot poisoned darts at the enemies. When the darts have all been used, the warriors would attach an iron spearhead to the sumpit, effectively transforming it into a spear.
As such, the Sumpit Warrior would be a regional infantry unit available to all the SE Asian civs in their Barracks at the Castle Age (could even give it to potential Southern Chinese civs like the Dians / Zangkes), however only the Malays have access to the elite upgrade in the Imperial Age. It follows the general principle of a low-attack but cheap and expendable unit, similar to the Karambit. Unlike the Karambit but similar to the Ratha, this unit can switch between melee and ranged modes. When in melee mode, it resembles a weaker version of the Pikeman, and when in ranged mode, it resembles a shorter-ranged crossbowman, though could have a poisoned attack effect similar to the Jungle Bowman in AOE 3.
I’m not sure how such a unit would play out for SE Asian civs. Please provide some feedbacks.
In general I like the idea of more regional units, where appropriate (I think the Slinger should be a regional American unit, for example, but with different bonuses for each civ).
Being a cheap ranged unit that’s not a skirmisher is already a sufficient niche; it doesn’t need to also be a mini-ratha that also deals poison damage. I’m open to using the toggle mechanic on other units, but I would generally save it for Elite tier/Unique Units that are powerful and usually worth microing. Not for cheap and expendable units where their low cost and fast production rate would not justify them having such a potentially strong mechanic, (or if their stats were bad enough might not be worth using at all). Beyond that, it’s hard to judge the viability/strength of a unit where you haven’t provided cost or any kind of stats.
In this particular case, I would also question the applicability of this unit to civs beyond the Malay. I’m not up on the history of the region, but I don’t know that the Khmer, Vietnamese, or Burmese would have used such a unit, or whether it would play a role that they need.
Yep, particularly with a poison mechanic.
Edit: Also,
But in AoE2, the Darts/Arrows/Spears/Cannonballs/Giant Axes are never all used
I’ve watched a video about the sumpit and they actually put the blowgun in a wooden casing when not used, so it could be the case that they attached the iron spearhead on the casing and not directly on the blowgun itself.
I know, mine was a flippant comment since I personally don’t think a toggle mechanic fits well with an expendable meat-grinder type of unit (IMO you would have to make it kind of expensive to account for the flexibility, but I have no idea what kind of stats/cost you’re thinking for this unit). The use of melee weapons in close combat by Archers or other ranged fighters was also pretty common, doesn’t mean we have to give everybody toggle.
I don’t agree. As far as I can tell, the order of the Eagle Warriors was originated by the Toltecs, who passed it both to the Mexica as well as the Yucatec Mayans. While other American civs may have not technically had orders of Eagle Warriors, most of them had analogs that were extremely comparable (at least to how the unit plays out in AoE2), like the Inca Chasqui or Runanchas. (Incas and other South-Americans also had warriors at least aesthetically inspired by Condors or other birds as well). A lightly armored, swift, spear-wielding warrior with some kind of bird motif was extremely widespread in the Americas, even if they weren’t all explicitly known as “Eagle Warriors”. All of this presents a far more robust case for the use of the Eagle by American civs than a blowgun unit if the other SE Asian civs in question rarely or never used blow guns (again, I don’t know whether they did, but that should be a factor for regional units).
In terms of a unit that was explicitly called that, sure. In the Inca case it’s a matter of having a good analog in terms of function more than appearance. But his point and mine is that use of light infantry with spears was common enough that the Eagle Warrior is at least a reasonable stand-in for a real type of warrior in a lot of American civs. (Certainly more so than giving Aztecs Arbalester and Blast Furnace, but we don’t need to have that discussion.)
I personally would like to see a different unit that has a similar function for South American civs, as well as for civs north of Mexico. But for now it’s fine.
