My thoughts on future possible campaigns

I want to clarify right away - this is a topic about how I personally see it. Your opinion may differ, but I give reasons for mine. I’m not trying to make any detailed concept of civilizations or campaigns here (because they won’t be taken anyway, the authors always have their own plan). I just want to express a number of some wishes, simple requests and assumptions. Maybe some of this will interest the developers or turn out to be prophetic.

FAR EAST ASIA

Japan
Thanks to historical battles, we already have 4 missions for the Japanese and 1 against them, which add up to a more or less unified story of the formation of the shogunate and military dictatorship. Although the Shogunate period is the most accepted in pop culture, I want to point out that there is already quite a lot of content about it. So personally, I would like to see a campaign about earlier Japan, during the period when it was actually ruled by emperors and even empresses (the most interesting was in the 6th-8th centuries).
I don’t indicate who specifically I would like to see. Perhaps Emperors Tenmu and Shomu, and maybe even briefly show Queen Jingu from the 3rd century (although she is more legendary than historical).

Other campaigns are China and Korea. I have no suggestions as to what these leaders and events might be.

The problem with this dlc is that it should ideally add 3 campaigns and 2 nations, but if you do this, then 2 new nations risk being left without campaigns again. Therefore, I propose either to harmoniously integrate them into the campaigns of the main nations (3 missions for the Chinese and 2 for someone else, 4 missions for the Koreans and 2 for someone else), or expand the content and, in addition to the three campaigns, also include several historical battles for new sides.

NOMADIC DLC

Although the game already has Seljuk, Kotyan, Genghis Khan, Tamerlane and Babur, the theme still feels like it is not finished. It was basically shown that these leaders conquered everyone and shed rivers of blood, but for me personally the picture of the existence and end of the Mongol Empire does not fully emerge. I have no specific proposals about what the new sides and campaigns there should be, perhaps Afghans and Uzbeks, although they did not have much independence or influence. But I would like to see how this huge empire fell apart into the Hordes, what more subtle political events took place there, what mistakes and internal hostilities there were.
May be also Pechenegs story?

Also, with or without this DLC, the nomadic architectural style should appear in the game. It is incredible that they have been using Chinese or Muslim ones for so many years.

ISLAMIC DLC

Turkiye
Thanks to Historical Battles and V&V, we already literally have the entire history of the Turks from their origins in the Central Asian steppes under Seljuk to the phased and final conquest of Byzantium. Some will say that this means nothing and a full-fledged campaign could be repeated, but I disagree with that. I would not like to take Manzikert for the 3rd time and kill the same Byzantine leaders. I am for original content.
We literally have 2 untouched periods of Turkish history that could be suitable for the campaign:

  1. Konya Sultanate (somewhere between 1100-1300). Kayqubad I is considered the most interesting leader of this period.
  2. Events after the capture of Constantinople. These could be the Ottoman-Hungarian Wars (1456 - 1526), Wars with Persia (1533 - 1555), War with Austria (1593-1606).

Other Islamic dlc campaigns could be:

Arab Caliphate
Wars with Byzantine and Persian Empires in the 7th-8th centuries. Also this campaign can reflect such a phenomenon - the Golden Age of Islamic Sciences (8th-13th centuries).

Mamluk Sultanate in Egypt (1250-1517)
Wars against Crusaders and Mongols. The Mamluks won a decisive victory at the Battle of Ain Jalut in 1260, stopping the Mongol advance into Islamic lands.

As you can see, I’m not suggesting specific dates or leaders. It’s not for me to decide. I simply indicated the range in which we can have the most significant content on the subject.

It’s a shame that the Persian campaign which we got turned out to be such a waste. This is possibly the worst campaign in the entire game, its authors failed to tell the story at all.

DLC ABOUT RUS AND AROUND

Separate civs for: Rus, Cossacks, and finally Romanians.
Please don’t go arguing with me, Cossacks / Ukraine did exist, this was discussed in hundreds of posts. At a very minimum they are not less separate than Burgundians from French, Tatars from Mongols, Portuguese from Spanish. They just did exist and lets end the talk about this.

  1. Early (Kievan) Rus campaign
    Since the nation was just being formed, in this campaign we can play for different nations or a game race artificially synthesized for the campaign: Slavs + Byzantines + Vikings. Possible historical figures of this period:
  • Rurik (862-879)
  • Oleg Prophetic (879-912)
  • Igor (912-945)
  • Olga (945-960)
  • Svyatoslav (964-972)
  • Yaropolk (972-978)
  • Vladimir Svyatoslavich (978-1015)
  • Yaroslav the Wise (1019-1054)
  • Izyaslav (1054-1068, 1069-1073)
  • Vsevolod Yaroslavich (1078-1093)
  • Vladimir Monomakh (1113-1125)

Edit. I forgot to mention. One of the interesting events of this period is the victory over the Khazars, after which their people disappeared and assimilated with others. The Khazars are the ones who drove the Bulgarians to Europe (before that they lived approximately in the Caucasus region). Also, Khazars are, in some form, a transitional link between the Huns and the Turks (this is a simplification, but by AoE standards it works).
Also, the Rus at that time fought with the Pechenegs and Cumans. These peoples also vanished.

  1. Later Rus campaign
    Something in the range of 1300-1600.
    We play for a specific civilization of the Rus.
    I consider the most significant series of events during this period to be the deliverance from the Mongol occupation and the transition to a counteroffensive, thanks to which the Golden Horde (which was previously Volga Bulgaria) turned into Russian Tatarstan. This was a process stretched over more than 100 years and its leaders were different princes. The last of them is Ivan 3. Thus, this campaign could also become a prequel to the events that are shown in AoE 4.
    You can also show something else. But I ask you very much - don’t show Tsar Ivan the Terrible. He was so bad that even modern ultra-right propaganda does not defend him. In no epoch nobody was proud of him.

  2. Ukrainian campaign
    We can take one of those, or all of them:

  • Dmytro Vishnevetsky (about 1516 - 1563)
    One of the first Cossack leaders who fought against Polish and Tatar aggression.
  • Krysztof Kosinski (about 1560 - 1620)
    Cossack hetman who led the uprising against Polish rule at the end of the 16th century.
  • Petro Konyushevich-Sagaidachny (1582 - 1622)
    Hetman of the Registered Cossacks, who strengthened the Cossack movement and participated in successful military campaigns.

I also want to emphasize that although Kievan Rus existed, it was not the original form for these peoples. Before this, the Rus came from the north (Ladoga), and the Ukrainians lived near the Black Sea. Although even before that, both of them came from Great Moravia.

Someone may ask: “What? 2 for Rus and 1 for Cossacks - isn’t it too much?”
It’s not. Because we already have like 15 campaigns about Europe and 15 battles besides. India has 4. Nomads have 4 + battles. Rus can afford itself this, it is fair.

BALKANS DLC

This has been discussed many times already, so I’ll just reiterate how I see it. There are 2 options.

  1. Albanians civ - Skanderbeg campaign
  2. Balkan Slavs civ (umbrella for all the numerous peoples of the former Yugoslavia) - a campaign about the early period of their history (9-11 centuries), when they were a single people indeed. So that no one is offended.
  3. Instead of a normal campaign - 1 historical battle separately for the Bosnians, Macedonians, Slovenians, Croats, etc.

Yes, I know that many will say that the Slovenians and Macedonians did not exist at all. But you just need to ask them themselves and they will name which event and leader they consider theirs. This way you don’t need to create 5-8 civs but at the same time you cover pretty much everything.

Another option:

  1. The same thing about Albanians
  2. civ and campaign for Serbs
  3. civ and campaign for Croats

In this case, attention is paid to the most broad and specifically defined peoples, but others will remain completely unattended.

2ND DLC ABOUT INDIA

I fully support this guy:

He knows what he’s talking about, he has everything written out perfectly. If the second batch of stories about India is as good as the first, then I’m sold. There is just one thing - many other regions must come out before going to India for the second round will become fair.

ALSO
I would also like to see full-fledged DLCs with 3 campaigns about the cultures of America and Africa. But I don’t have any specific ideas and I’ll just trust the authors. The most important thing is to tell good stories.

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???

How are these nations even comparable to a nation that was never independent? Mongols and Tatars are even fron a diferent language family!

It makes more sense to divide the civ into the Kievan Rus and Moscow

I will not argue for the first point. That was already enough on this forum. They just existed and that’s all.

As for the 2nd point - If you correctly create the game civilization of Rus’, then the imperial era will reflect Muscovite Rus’, and the stages before will reflect Kievan Rus. There is no need to present them as two different ones, making it possible to fight each other.

Thats the thing, they didnt exist independently. Whats the point of adding a nation that never was independent during the timeline? especially in Europe, who is already so well represented

And you could make instead be the imperial Kievan Rus play as the cossacks and then havr the Muscovites separatedly?

Technically, Italy wasn’t independent during this time period. It was under control of the Holy Roman Empire. Yes, the HRE didn’t have time to properly govern Italy, but the Italian states weren’t entirely independent. Charlemagne and Barbarossa even went as far as to conquer them into submission.

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a. You know thats not a fair comparison

b. The Italians still had Venice

That’s why nobody gets what Burgundians are doing in this game. But they are here.
Were Celts independent? Were Vikings a nation? Were Teutons a nation? Were Cumans an empire? (no)

That is the thing that indeed never existed. Rus got it’s first tsar only in 1547.

IMG_2169

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I dont like Burgundians, but they still had independent periods during the darrk ages and were quasi independent during the 100 years war. Even then, it doesnt mean we should repeat those mistakes

They all represent states that were independent, doesnt matter if they have pther problems

Imperial Cossacks didnt exist earlier, I was talking about the imperial age kievan rus being modeled after the cossacks

Ukranians just never experienced the same level of independence during the middle ages as Italians

Heck theres also the pre-HRE kingdoms of Italy who were quite a few

Maybe so, but they were still a nation in a way.

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But that cant be our logic fot adding civilizations when the meeieval period is so vast and diverse

Need I remind you that Koreans weren’t a civilization at the time? Hindustani is a language, and there’s probably many other blunders, but how many people object to them?

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Koreans and Hindustanis represemt many indepemdent states

And again, we need to include ao much stuff, why focus on some region that had pretty much no independence?

Man, look. This debate has happened here on the forum over and over and over again. HUNDREDS of posts have been written about this. Did you miss it and want to play this text RPG again? The summary and conclusions that have already been drawn are as follows:

A civ stands out in the game not by the number of kings, territories, or years of independence calculator, but by whether world perceives it as interesting and worthy of attention. No one asks whether the Vikings were an empire, how much money they had in their treasury, or whether there was a treasury at all. They never had a king, they never had walls and borders. It’s just that there were Vikings and the players want them to be in the game.
Therefore, the question about Ukrainians / Cossacks is: do we love them enough to ask for them to be added? My answer is yes.

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What were they then?

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I feel that Chinese and Korean campaigns can come together with a larger East Asian themed DLC featuring Jurchens, Tanguts, and Baipu (Baipu being the exonym for Nanzhao and Dali and also covering the plethora of indigenous tribes of South China), since they were more connected to the Asian continent.

Whereas Japanese campaigns should best be introduced with a minor Japan-themed DLC with Ryukyuans being the only new civ. Ryukyuans and Japanese could share the current East Asian architecture which is based on the Japanese architecture, and a new continental East Asian set needs to be introduced for Chinese, Koreans, Jurchens, Baipu and Vietnamese. Tanguts and Mongols could share a new North Asian nomadic style architecture.

Just please don’t introduce Japanese campaigns with a SE Asian DLC, cause medieval Japan had nothing to do with SE Asia, neither culturally nor linguistically and nor militarily.

By the way, here’s my quick draft of how the Ryukyuan civ could possibly look like in AoE 2, after a research of less than half an hour:

Ryukyuans (12th century onward)

Infantry and Defensive civ

Unique Unit: Magiri Gun, a fast-footed infantryman wearing Japanese armor but wielding a Chinese-styled halberd and a wooden shield

Unique Building: Gusuku or Gushiku

Castle Age UT: Hiki

Imperial Age UT: Great Tribute

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The area was apparently controlled by a kingdom called Goryeo from 918-1392.

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Maybe I’m a little sleepy but, isn’t Goryeo a literal Korean kingdom?

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I was also thinking that true Asia can be divided into 2 dlcs but this is a rather bold approach. And what do you propose, in the DLC about Japan there would be literally 3 Japanese campaigns?

It’s not a bold approach at all but fits with their history. The Japanese were rather isolated at that time hence I feel that introducing their campaigns in a broadly East Asian themed DLC isn’t a good idea, and it’s arguably even worse if you put them in a SE Asian themed DLC.

The best approach is to introduce their campaigns in a minor Japanese themed DLC with the Ryukyuans being the only new civ. And this minor DLC would have 2 new campaigns, one for the Japanese and the other for the Ryukyuans.