Awarding the word Americans for the United States is an error that arose in a populist way, I am also Hispanic American, the truth is not that it bothers me, but if it sounds ridiculous, ask Canadians if they do not find that confusing
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The flag is the Imperial standard of the Holy Roman Empire though. And if you think this:
resembles any version of the Prussian flag a 20 second session on google could have shown you it was entirely fictional.
The entire German faction is styled around the HRE in the 30 yearâs war, the flag, its unit roster and a slew of card names all refer to it.
In contrast the Prussian references number 3⊠the AI leaderhead, homecity and the Needlegunner. The first two are obviously chosen due to their recognizability over historical accuracy, and the Needlegunner is merely a poorly chosen name for the RG skirmisher. Frederick still was the Elector of Brandenburg so in a way he was still in some way ruling over a small portion of the HRE. The most recognizable emperors were probably not chosen because they also ruled over the Netherlands and Spain for example. Later emperors were not as exciting as superstar Frederick.
On the topic of the USA, it seems the devs did an excellent job in its creation. Iâm not too fond of their inclusion but I canât deny the faction is a solid design on the gameplay part from what Ive seen. Iâll unlock them tomorow if everything goes a planned.
I do like they use the Nations name instead of the people group, I think that fits AOE3 a lot better and wish the old factions would receive the same treatment. Donât expect Prussia though⊠its the HRE.
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Iâm going to have to respectfully disagree with you.
Iroquois and Sioux were changed because the people of those groups do not wish to be associated with those names.
People of the United States of America DO want to be called Americans. Itâs how we refer to ourselves. AND we do not have another name for ourselves. âUnited Statesianâ doesnât exist in English.
Why do we want to be called American? Because it is the name of our nation. Similarly to why the people of Estados Unidos Mexicanos are called âMexicansâ in English or the people of RepĂșblica Federativa do Brasil are referred to as âBraziliansâ. The âUnited Statesâ part is exactly like the âEstados Unidosâ or âRepĂșblica Federativaâ.
Telling an entire culture of people that they call themselves the wrong thing is⊠highly offensive. People from the outside do NOT get to decide what a people calls themselves. This is how the issue with the Haudenosaunee and Lakota issue came up in the first place. Just because YOU have a name for a group of people, does not mean that you have the ultimate say in how they refer to themselves.
In the United States of America, we do not refer to the entire landmass from Alaska to Tierra del Fuego as âAmericaâ. We refer to the parts north of Colombia as âNorth Americaâ and the parts south of Panama as âSouth Americaâ. When we refer to the entire landmass, we call it the âAmericasâ, which is plural.
At the end of the day, I would be a proponent of using âAmericanâ as the civilization name. On the backend, the developers refer to all units and technologies for the US as Americans.
That being said, if in Spanish you refer to us as âEstadounidenseâ, then that would make sense to use for the localization. The Spanish (and potentially Portuguese) files could simply have âEstadounidenseâ instead of âAmericansâ.
Let âAmericansâ be the English version and let âEstadounidenseâ be the Spanish localization.
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Okay this was my mistake because I hadnât taken a closer look at the flag. The flag that I saw when I played multiplayer in the original was really blurry. I just saw a white background and a semblance of an eagle and assumed Prussia. So yes youâre right itâs the HRE much like the current, more accurate flag. But in any case I just used Prussia as an example. Whether itâs Prussia or the HRE my point still stands, those are nation states, and I like that they used the âGermansâ instead.
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Right on most counts but I donât see much Thirty Years War inspiration. Skirms and Uhlans are post-1648, War Wagons were from the Hussite Wars, and Doppelsoldners have designs based on early 16th century landsknecht. Swordsmen in the 17th century wouldnât have dressed like that.
Also, just my opinion, but I certainly prefer that civs are generally named after nations (people groups) as opposed to nation-states. Nation states are a modern phenomenon. Even in the early modern era the concept of nation-states was only beginning to take off. Additionally, the long and continuing intrinsic value in people groups seen through history makes civs based on peoples as more historically âmeaningfulâ in my eyes.
The Ottomans arent considered to be active colonizers, yes they conquered but its questionable to state them to be colonies. Dont believe the Ottomans activally send Turks to the lands in large quantities to colonize the area, and migration doesnt count.
Technically true, but the main ruling class was also not Turkish, as the best boys that were recruited by the same system (devsirme) would take part of the administration, being minister, governors, generals, etc. Most Grand Viziers (the most powerful men in the Empire after the sultan) were Greeks, Albanians, etc.
It is obvious that the civ in the game refers to the Ottoman Empire, not a (anachronic) concept of Turkish people. A bit like Lakota or Haudenosaunee, Ottoman is how they named themselves in that time: devlet-i Êżaliyye-i ÊżosÌČmĂąniyye, The Sublime Ottoman State.
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Yes, you have several points in favor and you are right. But even so, I do not find it correct to call them âAmericansâ, I would prefer another term like âNorth Americansâ or something like that, it can also lead to confusion due to the fact that the USA is the first civilization of the âAmericanâ group, In the future, if God wants, add to this group Mexico, Brazil or Argentina, and it would be nice if the word âAmericanâ could encompass them all!
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The problem with going with âNorth Americansâ is that it combines both problems:
- It is not what the people of the USA call themselves
- It is not specific enough and encompasses other people such as Canadians and potentially Mexicans, Greenlanders, and more depending on how your culture defines âNorth Americaâ
Wars of Liberty, in my opinion, has handled the grouping of these nations very well. To my understanding, this mod was originally about the War of the Triple alliance and was started by South Americans. They have:
- Anglos - USA, Canadians, Australians
-
Latin Americans - Brazil, Mexico, Argentina, etc.
Note that there is probably an argument to separate Brazil here
Culturally, the different colonies were not really similar enough to group together. The English and Spanish had very different approaches to colonization and produced different cultures and societal structures. Grouping along the lines of the home culture might make more sense.
Granted my view points on the grouping of the nations are based on my biases of being from the USA. As mentioned above, we typically view North and South (and sometimes central/Caribbean) as separate continents.
At the end of the day, this discussion weâre having is probably why we have a civilization of âthe United States of Americaâ which bucks the trend of using a demonym (british, spanish, etc). It was probably the least controversial way for the developers to include the USA, but obviously is not a perfect solution.
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I didnt mention the Jannisary because of ruling, I mentioned them because its the only barracks unit the Ottomans have what on it own shows the Ottomans arent Turkish on its own.
AOE never makes a clear distinction between nations, civilizations, peoples or states. In AOE3 most European civs are more of a ânationâ than a âcivilizationâ, except Germans.
Correct me if Iâm wrong. âOttomansâ does not refer to the people either. It is more used to call the ruling dynasty, just like âSafavidsâ, âSassanidsâ, âAbbassidsâ. If you click on the demonym entry of âOttoman Empireâ on wikipedia, it goes to:
One interesting thing: in Civilization 4 almost every civ is called by the demonym, but then you can scroll down the list and see âHoly Roman Empireâ.
I would buy AoE2 with USA. Swear to god.
After all the Vikings reached north america.
So we can accommodate the U.S.A nation in AoE2.
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So Iâm a Yankee and an expat. If you need a word in English specifically referring to citizens of the USA thatâs slightly disparaging of our arrogance or history, Yankee is fine. As a bonus, it can sometimes upset Southern citizens of the USA when used as a catch-all.
The USâs history of several different nation-states from former colonies that were, to the English, âAmericanâ colonies as we were in the Americas, has likely led to âAmericanâ being used in this way. It made sense at the time to declare ourselves the âUnited States of Americaâ - we were a group of nations in America uniting in a stand for independence. This does leave a problem though - English demonyms often derive from the end of a nationâs title, even when the end of a nationâs title is based on an existing region or culture. In English, people from the Democratic Republic of Korea and from the Republic of Korea are both âKorean.â âSudaneseâ can refer to people from multiple nations as well. More similar to how âAmericanâ is now used to refer to âof the Americasâ or âof the USâ, âSerbianâ can refer to those from the Republic of Serbia, or to those from a region including Serbia, Montenegro, Bosnia, Herzegovina, and Kosovo. Sometimes âSouth Africanâ can refer to South Africa (the nation) or South Africa (the region), which is arguably even more confusing in English to explain than âAmericanâ. Namibia is in South Africa and is a South African nation, but is not part of South Africa (the Republic of South Africa). They are not South African citizens.
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Oh god, Iâm having such a good time reading this thread. There is something that really amuses me seeing people trying to not seen offensive, but being extremely offensive on the process. 
Again, thatâs only add to my theory that 80% of people complaining here on the forum towards the addition of the United States to the game is based solely on political hate towards the modern country.
The name of the country is America (United States of indicates that is federation, and America is the name of the country). And people understand that.
Iâm south American myself, and I live somewhat close to a American neighborhood. I never in my whole life saw someone use the word Estadunidense, is always Americano or Gringo (On more informal conversations). People know the name of the country is America, and American is a proper gentilic. It is legitimately the first time in my life Iâm seeing someone being insulted for this.
I saw people getting insulted for being called âLatinoâ, for reasons varying from mashing together people from radically different countries in one group just because they share the same(ish) language (Think United States and Jamaica as a example), or because Latino means barking, and being the name of a cancer singer. But I never saw someone insulted for the gentilic American. Never. This is not a real problem.
The claim the almost everyone on the continent dislikes then is false. And I donât want to get political here, but pretty much any south American country has a dark curriculum, including mine and probably yours as well.
And how entitled are you to demand that a group of people donât call themselves their gentilic?
I disagree. The fact that the mod resumes the Brazil bonuses as the âslavery powerâ is a misinterpretation of the history of that nation. They donât mention how that nation exterminated from their culture gross, violent, primitive, retrograde and savage behaviors like racist movements, religiously intolerant insurrections, slave-owners tyrants, pirates proto-states and the natives.
Also their infinite gold generation building should be Cocaine Plantation or Canebrakes and Nutmeg farms for the children settlers to work on, and they should have massive bonuses on the outlaw units.
That would be a much more accurate depict of this civilization, and much more respectful handling of the history of that country than just this approach focusing on the minor slavery part.
Sure. Why not? And add the Vikings on Age of Empires 3 as well. They had settlement that lasted about 2 years on the North America at some point. That is much more history and relevance on the continent than the Aztecs had.
No. School Shooters is far more appropriated and represent the countries culture and history much better.
Oh lord⊠what a thread. Thatâs why I signed for this forum. 
Summary
I wasnât saying the whole mod was good. I was addressing the grouping of civilizations was good in the case of the USA vs other countries in the Western Hemisphere. Specifics on how Brazil is handled is not relevant to what I was talking about. I said these things directly to handle the grouping of civilizations should Argentina, Brazil, etc. become civs in the game and what to call that grouping. My statement shouldnât be seen as an endorsement of the mod overall.
I wasnât trying to say anything about representation of any individual state. And nothing you said in your statement contradicts what I was saying: The Anglo and Latin America grouping works in general.
Leaving for continuity. I got a little too defense here on a meme. My bad @ToroidalLeaf69
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I wasnât trying to refute you. I was just memeing.
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Itâs ok, I think I had some fault as well, because I started my post serious and ended up just joking it. And someone reading could have interpreted as I was serious throughout the whole thing. Looking back, I probably should have done 2 separate post.
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Yes, but Brazil or Mexico dont exist or affect other regions. America is a continent. Saying Americans would be correct if USA were the entire continent, but it isnt.
Obviously, english speakers wont complain because they arent affected for this. Thats incorrect and It has to be changed.
The country is United States of America, not only America, thats a continent. United States of Mexico can use Mexicans because they are the only Mexicans in the world.
Saying that other countries arent Ameeicans or there are 2 Americas want separate USA from south america and let them apart.
So you are only addressing one of my points. I donât think that reasoning is strong enough to invalidate the fact that a people gets to decide what they are called. And I fundamentally donât understand why you canât just have Estadounidense in the Spanish translation and leave âAmericanâ in the English translation.
To respond to your specific point, there are 2 items here.
- America as one continent is not something that is universal. It is an idea that is mainly taught in Latin America, but not in the United States. We see it as North America and South America. There is no âAmericaâ that refers to the entire thing. There is the âAmericasâ and âThe New Worldâ and the âWestern Hemisphereâ. Forcing your culture on someone else and telling them what to call themselves is not appropriate in todayâs age. Wikipedia link on the different continents
- Your logic does not hold up when looked at even in other countries in South America. Letâs take for example the Guianas. This is a region that includes parts of Venezuela, French Guiana, Guyana, Suriname, and parts of Brazil. Would you tell the people of Guyana that they cannot call themselves Guyanese? Or letâs take for example Colombia. Gran Colombia included parts of modern day Venezuela, Panama, Ecuador, Guyana, and Brazil. Do you have a problem with calling people of Colombia âColombiansâ?
I really donât think you should be forcing your worldview on how a people self identifies. People have a right to self determination - and this includes what they call themselves.
This seems very dangerous. It is not right to tell a people that they call themselves the wrong thing. As an outsider to their culture, you have no right to tell them to self identify differently.
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