Need buff for German Church Card

I think current techs available via this german church card are generally not worth it.
Maybe Tilly’s Discipline? This can be used sometimes- treaty or late game (when your pockets are full).
20% movement speed for Infantry and 10% more cost? not sound that bad.
Let’s see other two techs.
Wallenstein’s Contracts? Needs 3000 gold and it will make free of the cost when you use mercenary cards- except when they are infinite-shipments.
I really don’t see where this can be used: In treaty? Well you can build mercenaries by yourself. Why use this card? Team Game? Maybe. But does it really worth 3000g and 1 card? I doubt it.
Let’s see other one. Zweihander?
Need 2000g and it will send you 12 doppels and 10% hitpoints for them.
I don’t know… I mean you can hire 10 landsknechts for 1000 gold. And that card comes in age III. But this Zwe~~ comes at age IV. Use doppels for late games? Well you can, sometimes, maybe? But even so, I think this tech doesn’t have that value to sacrifice 2000g. You can use that for other ones, which would be more effective instead of this d-word-tech.
What’s your opinion, guys?


Wallenstein’s Contracts: Every time you use a mercenary transport card you will get free ship transport, once.

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This needs to change. Either make Mercenary Armies (infinite shipments) also free, or make Saloon Mercenaries (not Outlaws) free aswell.

This one is not bad, just overpriced as heck. for 1200 Coin, I would consider it.
In general, Dopps are not that good, because slow Hand Infantry is not good in general. after you send all their cards, however, they become true Siege machines, that bring down buildings faster than Imperial Mortans can.
If they want the HP buff to remain at 10%, it should be way cheaper. Alternatively, they could increase the HP buff to 20%, which would be more justifiable for a 2k Coin shipment.

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My point exactly. It’s overpriced.
The price of it should be cut in half(and also change the required age IV to III. I think that would make this more interesting.) or just increase the hitpoint buff percentage.
I would rather prefer 25% damage buff instead of current hitpoint buff since the name of this tech is ‘Zweihander’. But just increase the percentage of hitpoint buff to 25% would also be great.

It should be changed ASAP.

The Zweihander is fine with me tbh, combined with the free Tilly’s discipline you get 5 speed dopps shipment that has extra hp so they can reach their targets more easily.

Combined with their other combat cards & advanced arsenal and you can get the ultimate meme dopps

It takes too long for those Dopps to be worth anything, and the Zweihander tech is still overpriced,.
2000 Coin for 12 Dopps is not worth it. 1200 Coin would be.

It has its purpose since you are not just paying for the dopps but the 10% HP as well, its not great but its not nothing. Also you can send it as an overpop. Arguably it can be made cheaper but tbh its not a thing you ever want to do in a 1v1 or even team game, and the 2k cost is fine for like treaty I guess

Yet 2k Coin can go into a lot of units taht are better than 12 Dopps, like 5 Falcs.
The issue is that it is overpriced, for what you get.

Sure but there is also great value in a tech that you can use to over pop and I dont think we should discount that.

Assume full pop, it gets you to 223-224 pop and about 120 military pop, that level of power spike can be deadly, especially with German units so I think teh 2k cost is fine

I’d rather send 10 Landsknecht mercs for 1000 gold than use that church tech. The mercs come out stronger unless you’ve been sending cards for the doppels allready. But I don’t see many German players (or any players) using melee infantry cards.
Fully upgraded and carded the doppels do more damage, but LK mercs are faster and tougher and still do good damage. Doppels are ofc much easier to get.

Wallenstein’s contract may just be the worst church tech in the game. 3000 gold for free mercs? It doesnt even work on the infinite shipments. I need to send mercs three times to even break even.


As a treaty player, I think doppels take too much investment for such a niche use unit. To completely max them out you need 5 cards total. One of which is the church card and as stated by others above, it takes an additional 2k gold for the hp buff + the speed buff which makes your entire inf lineup cost more + the cost of upgrading them to imp status. Also if you were to use all the doppel cards, you have to ditch so many good cards which sucks.

I just dont use doppels anymore, now I can take all the team cards and have a better eco or a bigger army because I need less settlers and there isnt really a whole lot of difference in terms of power. Also, I like to go the merc route which might give something like mamelukes or landsknechts which require 1 card and 1 age up politician.


Germany’s unique church card is the best in the game. Tilly’s discipline is incredible in late game and Germany can afford the extra 10% infantry cost. Also, the doppel upgrade is nice, saves a card slot.

Pffffff saloon mercenaries free? Either you worded it badly or you mean train them for free from the saloon which would be broken as ■■■■.

Lets take the fusilier for example, it costs 300 coin, with 11 trained you already got the cost out of the upgrade.

A bold claim.
Tilly’s discipline is the only tech from the German church card that can be considered good. And then only in the very late game, most games won’t last long enough to reach the very late game making this age II tech quite useless.
The Age III tech, Wallenstein’s contracts may just be the worst church tech in the game.
The Zweihanders come in age IV, at this point I wouldnt spend 2000g on 12 Doppelsoldners with some extra health. Melee infantry is the worst unit type in the game. Three other civs get a 2000g shipment from their church in age IV, and all three are much better. And even give their civs something they usually can’t build, 26 skirmishers for Brits, 30 Musks for Dutch and 17 regular Hussar for Russians. The number of Doppels needs to be much higher or they need a better buff to be worth this price, even better would be getting an entirely different unit even.
Another thing wrong with the German church card, theyre the only that don’t have 2 unit techs. If they replaced Wallenstein’s with another tech that gave Highlanders or Fusiliers or something the German church card would perhaps be more usefull.


That’s exactly what I wanted to say!

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To be honest, most church card are disapointing. They all need some kind of reword.
I agree that german one is quite bad. I think that I would bundle germantown in it, and associate it with a food gathering decrease.

It could be nice to add the possibility to create more of the non-mercenary unit you can send (e.g. Blue Guard, Quaterfage, Bashir etc.) but with a cost increase compared to the normal unit type price.

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I think the easiest straight up buff is to make those upgrades available at the church by default, increasing costs if necessary.

Eu civs have a lot of tech upgrades hidden behind cards while newer civs don’t. I think it is time EU got a rework for some of these cards,just like politicians were reworked.

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Well, tbf I only play Free For All and there Tilly’s Discipline is by far the best unique church upgrade int the game. The extra 10% cost for infantry is irrelevant, because German economy can take that hit. Doppelsoldner are useless without the speed upgrade and having a 280HP/34 Attack 5.2 Speed Skirm is very nice.

Most church cards need buff.

Especially when Japan can get advanced arsenal as a side-product of age-up, Sweden gets that for free, and Asian consulates can produce infinitely some units that even the home country needs 1 card+1tech.

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Also Church upgrades can be considered similar to dances/big button for natives and wonders with god powers for asians. These things should not be hidden behind a card, imo. There are too many mandatory cards for EU civs.

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