Nerf a japon

bro you have been here for YEARS defending japan and every time you are wrong. at the pro level they just don’t use japan because they’re bored of it I’m sure

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You know balance is slowly returning to normalcy when people start complaining about Japan.

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They are and always will be, the difference is that Japan requires more skills than other civilizations currently in fashion and obviously everyone wants to compete as easily as possible and therefore choose imperfect copies of Japan

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Yes, cause pro players don’t like predictibility. Lol.

Correct, Sweden is essentially taking the worst most OP elements of Japan and magnifying them. Ashi --) Caroleans Shrine --) torps. They just ‘forgot’ to take the other elements such as disappearing explorers, all of the other OP units, ability to send twice as many villagers via cards than any other civ. And even just taking two features from Japan, Sweden is still in contention for being one of the strongest civs. People just gave up about complaining about Japan, it is understandable after nearly 20 years. And another thing, you basically have no choice of strategy versus Japan (and also China). You MUST hard rush them or else it is automatic lose. And that is contrary to how I like to play the game. They just place shrines all over the map and you’re screwed. All at no risk to them, unlike Sweden they don’t even have to risk 1 villager, no they have teleporting explorers. I have to say I really hate the civ. The shrine boom ability should be nerfed into oblivion so no one does it anymore.


Here are my suggestions for Japan not being so strong, but still strong:

Let’s start with the daimyo. This unit is almost unbeatable and does whatever it wants. We can do the following:

  • Acquire the hero tag, but without being immortal. This would help to be countered by anti-hero units.

  • They cannot create units near the influence of defensive buildings or town centers. They are a pain in late games or treaty where all of a sudden you have 10 mortars shelling the factories. They also start with a huge tactical advantage once the treaty ends because you basically start on the defensive against Japan.

  • The influence of daimyos should not affect artillery. (Similar to the change where missionaries don’t affect cannons and ships.)

  • Daimyos should not craft cannons in batches of 10.

  • Increase the cost of daimyos. There are too many benefits in a single unit for its price to be just a few coins. They are also very difficult to kill. Or simply greatly increase the training time of the daimyos in the shogunate.

  • They are vulnerable to the ‘sniper’ scout ability.

  • They do not self influence themselves as much as the other troops. Just 50% of the bonus aura would be fine.

My other suggestions are:

  • Prevent the cherry cart from being an additional exploration unit. How? It could be captured as if it were cattle.

  • Monks will not be able to use their escape ability when they are melee attacked.

  • Monks will build shrines a bit slower than they currently do.

  • Shrines may not be built near the influence of town centers, detachments and forts (and the like).

  • The second use of each shipment arrives 10% slower than the first time.


These are nice suggestions. Well thought out.

The trouble with Japan is that what causes them to be overbearing is so integral to there game the devs won’t change it. Those Tweeks though are addressing those but not drastically. Very nice!

I especially like the monk idea. They would have to make the decision to teleport quickly not lame you while the other hero trolls you by setting his shrines on your hunts and likely forward locations. The slower second shipment is nice also though I would penalize it harder than 10%. No one else has anything like this ability in the early game.

At least 10%. Maybe 15-20% would be fine?

Why do they even need the ability to ship cards twice, give it to some underdog civ instead or just remove it.

Not much help. And being a wagon unit only it can be converted is a weird idea.

About Cherry Orchard:

  • -1 Orchard Rickshaw when the game starts, which will make them have one Orchard Rickshaw only on maps that don’t have berries near the starting TC. However, each Age advancing option will give 1 Orchard Rickshaw instead of only Big Buddha.

  • Remove the 2 Orchard Rickshaws card (twice), but change the 1 Orchard Rickshaw card to infinite. Alternatively, remove both the cards, but add one 2 Orchard Rickshaws card (twice or infinite) in Age III or in Age IV.

  • Make Cherry Orchard (and Mango Grove) max gatherers to 15.

  • Reduce the content of a Cherry Orchard to 4500 or 4000 food. 3000 was considered but I later decided that would be too much of a nerf.

  • Make a Cherry Orchard need more distance from other buildings other than Cherry Orchards so it can’t get too close to the TC, Castles and other barriers.

Not bad.

No. In some cases, you still need to build them in large numbers and densely near the base like building normal houses. They will also have less animals then.

Not a fan. The amount of each shipment of a twice card is less than that of a normal single card.
Unless you make all civilization’s twice cards like this.

I mean enemy buildings. It will be more difficult for them to control the map this way.

man im not a japan fan at all but japan received 1 billion nerf already, why i see again a japan nerf suggestion thread, bruh

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The creator of this forum cannot answer you because it is suspended. Is it perhaps because of his profile image? XD

I 100% agree with you. So these are the reasons why this civ is so widely used

The thing with Daimyo military production, Shrines, and 2X Shipments must be balanced!
Also Nerf to Americans, British, Indians, Ottomans

And desperately a China rework!

All I see is some anime avatar thing he’s had for a while now. Statelyplayer was a good contributor.

For shame.

Japan is the go-to civ to complain about when all other options have been exhausted. When people complain about Japan, you know balance is in a decent spot.

Japan is the ultimate troll civ.

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Below 1100elo, you will think that all civs except the traditional eight civs in Europe are op, why not find the reason from yourself?

Japan is in a decent spot balance wise, I don’t think it needs much of a nerf.

The hero modification and the cart wouldn’t be much of a nerf to them and would be a step in the right direction.