We know why English have insanely high number of games played compared to other civs in ranked. They habitually cheese and their games end fast.
They have a winrate of 63.6% between 5 to 9 minutes!!! Like… what? The stat should tell you that it is completely broken. Mongols, another good cheese civ, have 54.7% in comparison for 5-9 minutes, meaning their cheese is more easily defended.
EDIT: English win rate at 5-9 minutes CLIMBS as you go up. At Diamond, the win rate is 67.9% currently for 5-9 minutes.
Other civs with the exception of French, hover around 33% in 5 to 9 min mark.
They are cheesing villagers and tower rushing. The game takes a frustrating turn and there is no way to really scout them unless you make a scout first and directly send one to their base, at which point your stable will be delayed by a lot when their longbows come, if there is no cheese. It’s a catch 22 situation.
The CRITICAL flaw is that you can’t defend by pulling villagers yourself like you could for Mongols or other civs against English tower rush. If you do that, you are already massively behind, because English villagers can simply kite away from you.
It’s a broken mechanic that ruins fun and the ladder experience.
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There’s civs that have similar win rates around the 50 minute mark. Shouldn’t that be completely broken as well then? English have got an overall win rate of 50% so if this strategy was broken you would quickly see everyone going for it with the overall win rate jumping to far above 50%. There’s also people who do not like to play against civs that turtle until age 3 or 4 and then finally get out because they can do it. Is that annoying cheese too?
The statistics clearly say that you can actually defend it, it seems like you just haven’t figured it out yet. Watch your own replays and pro gamers in order to find out and improve.
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@Julian7494 there’s a world difference between 5 minute and 50 minutes. Not a good example, not even close.
You didnt address anything I said about how things play out mechanically.
Overall winrate will plummet after they fail cheese. Because they actually don’t have the skill to be at the rank theyare in. Just go and see the winrate decline as you filter different leagues.
Some are in higher ranks because they cheese and get easy wins in lower ranks.
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What difference is there between a 5 and 50 minute game except for the 45 minute time difference? It does not matter how things play out mechanically. The statistics clearly show that it is not imbalanced so it is up to you to find strategies in order to deal with it. Take it as a good training for you on how to react when being put under pressure early on in the game.
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Problem with english, they have all the tools to win. Strong town center, towers with bonus, unlimited gold late game., keeps that build units. They can rush or defend and its easier to do
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If they had all the tools to win there would be a far above average win rate for the english. I don’t get what’s so hard to understand here? Our subjective views are clearly biased and people (including myself) are very prone to overestimating their own capabilities.
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It’s a difficult one. I wouldn’t say this is OP because it requires the english player moving 5 vills early on the map to the opponent’s base. That is a lot of iddle time.
Usually, you dont have to send your scout too far to spot this because they will just move in a straight line to your base, so you just have to adjust the scouting patern.
As for the response you can either look for a further gold mine and still age up before him and punish the forward vills or get a barracks up and kill the vills with spearman which will kill them in equal numbers.
I do understand why people have issues with it since in lower leagues its a very easy thing to do, send 5vills, right click oponent vills and build tower while its harder to deal with for the opponent, so maybe it wouldn’t hurt the civ to lower the villagers damage in age1.
As for the civ itself, I do believe their late game is too strong and definitely needs to be looked at. The majority of games if the english player reaches age4 it’s pretty much game over.
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@Julian7494 My man, English win rate at 5 minutes is HIGHER in Diamond than in Bronze to Platinum. As more English learn to tower rush, the higher their chance of winning is. Let me repeat: Diamond players are failing to defend English at a staggering 67.9% when they cheese.
50 minutes? That’s breaking intended game time of average 30 minutes. You don’t even have wood to build towers yourself at some point. WORLD difference. If we follow your logic, yes. English is broken. English win rate is 69% at 50 minutes at Diamond.
What statistics? EVEN IN DIAMOND the English win rate is 67.9%. at 5 minutes. Their win rate plummets after that, which means there’s bunch of noobs getting into higher ranks who don’t know how to follow up after failing rushes.
“Git good” is such a lackluster and lazy answer. The game is supposed to be fun, right? So is it fun that you have a 30% win rate against an English player that rushes you when you barely have enough wood to throw down a tower yourself at 4 minutes, Even among top quadrant of the ranking system?
No. Utterly senseless to believe that is “fun.”
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Tbh I like when there’s different approaches to win a match. Not just standard play. I never cheese or all in but imo it adds something to the game. E.g. on SC2 there’s canon rushes and also quite some terran proxy strategies and while it can be quite annoying when it happens to me it clearly is defendable. I wouldn’t mind playing against a player who just got into a league he doesn’t belong to because of cheese either as he most likely want continue going up the ladder if he doesn’t learn some other strategies as well. Imo it would be a good indicator once pro players were complaining about it. But haven’t seen anything there yet.
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I think the villager rush is one of those things you probably can learn to counter - and its power really varies depending on map spawn. But equally it you nerfed English Villager damage into say enemy villagers, I’m unclear it would change the game dramatically and would end this cheese.
With that said, I suspect most of these losses are standard Longbow harass rather than 5 vils straight off the bat. You lose a few vils, say “I’m too far behind, gg lets go again”. Same reason French (not remotely as good as English) have a 62.6% win rate in diamond if the game ends in 5-9 minutes. You mess up the defence, the initial knights kill a bunch of workers and you gg out.
The inverse is like Abassid with a 27.9% win rate in the first 5-9 minutes. Theoretically I guess you could rush up some camel archers and harass - but its not very likely. HRE on 29.4% for similar reasons. You are probably going to spend the first 10 minutes defending and booming (or going Castle for HRE - hence the big win% increase for 10-14 minutes). These early wins are presumably when an English/French sends in their initial harass units, loses them all for no damage, and quits for the humiliation.
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My defense rate for English longbow rush is 100% no matter what civ I play. When I play English, my longbow rushes get defended 100% as well. The game would go into 10 to 15 minute feudal battle, but it does not end at 9 minute mark. And I’m just Platinum. Longbow rush is good, but it’s mostly to force a reaction. I highly doubt that a simple and predictable longbow rush is what ends the game in 5-9 minutes in Diamond.
Let’s say the villager rush goes to the first gold. If their DPS is lowered, I could at least tank through the enemy villager damage for at least a little longer to get the resources I need to age up. The English gets up a tower anyway and delayed my feudal and forced me to get another goldmine far away. That’s enough damage.
Let’s say the villager rush goes for the first wood line in the alternative. I could at least get enough wood to build additional house elsewhere and build a stable to maintain control of resource lines away from my first TC.
Your interpretation of the high english 5 to 9min win rates presumes a lil too much. The most common english rush you’ll see at diamond+ is vanguard man-at-arms rush bc it’s effectively stronger and easier to transition out of into feudal pressure. All in all English does have a ###### ##### and overpowering late game and highly defensive base AND so ezzzz to play.
Take a look at this match up. One of the best players vs a pretty decent player. Deli is under pressure for the first 10mins. With a simple english rush.
You got beastyqt going 400 apm trying to stay alive. English player attacking. Not having any toubles in his own base.
I want all civs keeped unique but should have equal strengths every age
https://www.twitch.tv/beastyqt/v/1702335854?sr=a&t=1028s
I believe you didn’t understand the definition of rush, that’s to put pressure on the enemy
I saw the video and the player defended himself very well and had the advantage, where did you see that he was having difficulty?
while the English player spent some resources to have units to attack in the beginning, Delhi kept growing well
must understand that when there is an initial rush to have exercised at the beginning, the player gives up having a better economy by sacrificing his initial resources
in the end there are three possibilities
the player who started the rush gets the damage to the target player and stands out
both receive damage leaving them equal
or the rush is defended leaving the player who made the rush loses his resources and time with no return
it is not because a civilization manages to attack at the beginning that they are not balanced
this is not a passive game, we are subject to receiving aggression at any time whether we are prepared or not, we just have to know how to defend ourselves and that will depend on whether we play well or not and obviously no strategy can be infallible
so we can’t expect the enemy player to be nice to leave it in their comfort zone no
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What do the English do that’s cheese?
Seriosuly if you are Diamond yet don’t know how to defend Vills rush at start, watch some guide or replays.
Else you don’t deserve Diamond, for real.
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As people get better, their execution of rushing gets better as well, so your statement means nothing. A Diamond-level rushing is better than Gold-level rushing.
Knowing how to defend doesn’t mean anything if the opponent can match the execution better. That’s the thing about English villager rush. The variety of ways you can execute is multiple times higher because the villagers can attack.
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the defense tends to stand out over the attack, even more so in the beginning, while the attack has to plan its means, they will still have to move around wasting time and so when reaching the other side of the field the defense tends to have more resources and the defense still You can count on your base nearby so much to generate an army sooner, even more so that you don’t need to move. You also have your TC with a distance attack, strengthening the defense
it’s much easier to defend than to attack, but of course, if you don’t prepare you will always lose
and if you’re losing it’s because you didn’t prepare beforehand, you’re waiting for the game to be friendly for you, but if you prepared and lost your opponent played better than you, that’s all
defense has advantage over attack and that is undeniable
now what can we do to prepare for these situations? scouts to know what the enemy is planning, if you don’t know what the enemy is doing he will easily take you by surprise, so guide your scouts correctly and if you see that he is rushing into an attack, change your game to get his defense as soon as possible
Now if you haven’t been able to defend yourself and higher level players can, then you’re probably not prepared for that level of play.
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You don’t get to decide who deserves diamond and who doesn’t, pal. The ranked ladder system does that already. He is diamond, because he plays like diamond.
Well, I am in gold 1 this season after finishing my 5 rankeds and I am getting paired with platinum and diamonds, and beating them.
Ranked system is totally broken. I was platinum 2 last season and got terribly bad luck with the 5 rankeds and got versus diamonds high and a conqueror, and just won a match.