Japan in treaty is just OP. The amount of upgrades that Japan has make his troops insane but above all daimyo are literally disgusting. There are too many of them, they train troops fast as hell, they have aura troops buff, they can receive shipments and worst of all even if you manage to kill them they can be built again so fast that is nearly irrelevant to kill them. What’s the point? This makes no sense at all. If you did a bad play and couldn’t manage them you should pay the consequences but instead they just require 1.40 sec to respawn. This is a joke.
My nerf proposal:
-Reduce the number of troops upgrades japan has
-Increase the cost of daimyo 1000 for each resources and increase build time to 4 minute or even 5
-Nerf Shogun Togukawa HP
-Nerf training time speed or remove one daimyo card
This is literally like the 20th post to nerf japanese…
Japanese are one of the weaker treaty players.
They cant build their shrines on other spots on the map and even if you send herdables 2 European factories outproduce their shrines almost entirely. Then you still have the fact that Japanese miss 24 villagers compared to the other civs.
Every civ has a lot of upgrades for units, not just Japan. The daimio shouldnt be more of a problem in treaty when you build 4 layers of walls, then someone building a barracks forward.
Although I don’t trully think Japan needs any strong adjustments, I can see a lot of players struggling against their daimyo, so how about they can’t train units when they are too close to enemy TC?
Japan treaty is still pretty weak. Their economy is fragile and they are pretty bad in 1v1 matches. Always have anti cav horses if you are able to before the treaty ends and go right for the daimiyo and shogun Tokugawa to end their buffs early on.
I have a strong suspicion that people are being bamboozled by the hatamoto start I am seeing more and more. Look at your opponents deck and check for the Red Seal shipment card and if they have it expect hatamotos at your door asap and prepare accordingly.
Just because their eco is not the best it dosen’t mean that they are not broken. There are civs wich have worst eco and they don’t have units so broken and a movable fortress.Their eco is still strong and having less settlers means having more troops wich are also more powerfull with all these buffs. Daymio are a problem and are also unskilled. In the time you have dealt with first wave of them a decent player(Not even a good one) has already taken a good portion of the map and built walls. Once this happen you can’t kill Daymio anymore. Daimyo can even be used to sneak somewhere else and spam samurai and Hatamoto wich literally melt your walls and even if dosen’t work and the daymio dies it dosen’t matter because you can rebuilt him in 1.40 sec for a joke cost. No other civ can do something like that so easy. A lot of players play Japan in treaty and the reason is that they are easy and broken since they were realeased. This is also the reason wich why devs do not nerf them because too many people play them and tehy are scared of the backlash.
Hotamoto are bullsh. but they are still mangable somehow and i’m not complaining about them. Doing anti cav horses is not enough becasue you will just get countered and if he knows how to manage them a little he will not lose them and even if it happens as i already said it matters little becuase they require 1.40 sec to respawn plus Tokugawa has more then 3k HP wich is insane.
I dont have a lot of problems with japan but we all gotta admit that having a cav unit that also function as a mobile barracks is a very questionable mechanic.
Specially when Japanese units can be trained in batches of 10, so I totally understand the frustration as this can lead to really cheesy and annoying tactics
I think that all civilizations should be designed, with a mode for supremacy only for team and 1v1 games, and another mode for treaty. For example, Japan could be provided with a limit of 99 villagers in treaty mode alone, to compensate for not being able to build shrines. In this way, so many balance problems would be avoided and a sea of opportunities would be opened.
There really is not too much of a point to that honestly. The home city cards basically act as such a device. There are treaty cards and supremacy cards despite them not being labeled as such. Also villager/settler limits are there mainly for treaty modes to begin with. It is incredibly rare for anyone playing supremacy to hit their max vill count in a game. Giving Japan 99 vills might actually make them OP in treaty.
Are you playing 1v1? Or team games? What is your primary civ you play against them?
I play team games never 1 vs 1. The last 2 games i played against Japan i was Chinese and Aztech. I usually play Portugall and Germany and with these 2 civ is easier to counter Daymio but still the problem remain the same.
In treaty games economy is one of the biggest factors of winning. If you have a weaker economy it is really going to pull you down.
Building a forward barracks, stable or fort is the same as a daimio. There are so many civs that also enables soldiers to build barracks so you dont even have to send vills.
Japanese is not top tier in treaty and are worst than basically all Europeans
Are you playing people of relatively equal skill? I used to main China a lot. You have a massive advantage over Japan as China. Your eco should be huge compared to theirs, make good use of Keshiks and all cards that upgrade them as they are very good once they have all shipments. Use the black flag army to mass produce them along side steppes.
First of all i find that the cards that allows you to build with units are stupid and should be removed or have a limit on how many structure you could build. I know that eco is one of the biggest factors for winning but is not the only one. If 1 japan unit is worth 2-3 of yours it matters little that have less eco. Barracks do not have aura buff troops, barracks do not receive shipments, barracks do not move nor train x10, barracks need to be constructed and have a cost and barracks are easier to counter with mortars and siege unit. Daymio cost and train time is just a joke.The only way to counter a Daymio is with ranged cavalry and you have to pass trought tons of ashigaru, samurai ecc just to reach them. You are saying that Japan is not top tier maybe at higher levels it is not at medium levels. As i said a lot play Japan and there is a reason for it.
China eco is indeed one of the best in game even after the nerf but as i already said eco is not all. I don’t see this massive advantage you are talking about. China has already weaker units and only with all the cards upgrade they become good enough but it requires time. The only true strenght of China against Japan is mass of units you can do but Japan is faster in making cause of x10 and are also by far stronger. Keshiks are not good enough to kill Daymio they don’t do enough damage to kill them fast enough and what’s worse is that they have low HP so they get steamrolled by ashigarus, Yabusame and samurai. Anyway the MAIN problem remain even if you managed to kill Daymios there are 4 of them and they can be trained 1.40 sec for nearly no cost. You literally get no punshiment/reward to have lost/killed them.
From a quick count, there are indeed 16 cards to boost troops and 3 cards for Daimyo/Shogun.
Needless to say, most players will only include a small amount of them anyway.
Personally, I had to sacrifice all Daimyos (only keeping Tokugawa) and all cards that boost Samurai, Yabusame, Flaming Arrow and Daimyos (except the one that reduce training time) in order to have space for main eco upgrades (still a pretty weak eco even with everything).
They are strong IMO, but I do not see many players using Japanese in Treaty.
It is also pointless to include all 3 of them given that you get one for shotunate ageup.
More like 200th…