Maybe a damage drop-off over range. Mangonels could come closer to spread their love over the units covering them springalds, without making them obsolete.
Im tired of springald fests. I play Abbasid, springald. I play mongol, springald. I play English, springald. They have to move slower and pack/unpack slower. Maybe lower ranged armor so archers could deal more damage against them. Their damage output is fine for the cost and pop space.
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my vote is:
springalds should have lower hp (start off with maybe -10 hp and continue to tweak if needed)
and change their damage to this:
i agree here as well, possibly make it all civs pay more to build siege in the field. mongols will need a generic civ nerf elsewhere anyway
its a good thing we have another game called aoe2 to benchmark against heyā¦
we can see from there that BBC are very fragile so if you can get close enough you can at least delete them quickly. meaning even if they outrange and eat siege, and can be protected by ranged units just like springs, at least they risk/reward of engaging them with melee is actually rewarding as opposed to then having to spend too long in killing each spring
but it has reminded me, have you ever considered anything in the game imbalanced? or is everything the devs do always perfect? all units are just right as they are?
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Melee and gunpowder units should have bonus damage against siege.
Throwing torches is time-consuming (Low attack speed) and deals less damage too.
And reduce the springald default damage to 28 and adding 42 bonus damage to siege engines would do the trick.
Made in part by blizzard activision. Watch for that trailer to drop
Torching the siege equipment is ineffective.
Also wooden ones can also be destroyed by swords or spears irl.
I would love if they remove itā¦ IMO we have to many siege units, bombards as well
Sadly Elephants are particularly bad against springalds, not only are they usually paired with spam spearman, 12 springalds (not an uncommon number) will 2 shot an elephant which moves really slowly. In fact, I would consider springalds the best elephant counter right now in castle.
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Torches actually do have +10 bonus damage to seige, sadly the attack speed is so slow that even if you get to the springalds, they dont die that fast (and they go zoom particularly if they are mongol springalds)
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I agree. Now I have to go re read what I wrote to see what I actually said.
Yea, there is zero context there. My bad.
Ballista (springalds in AOE4, scorpions in AOE2 I believe) have always been a counter to those slow moving creatures.
The problem with springalds right now is that they also counter knights especially with spears in the way (meanwhile horseman melt to spears and archers which they are usually paired with). Meaning that in castle the only answer to springalds is to have more or better microād springalds. At least in aoe2 for example mangos/scorpions were destroyed super fast by any cav.
Wait what? Do we need to keep playing all this year with springalds in every game? This has became cancer, every game I play is just mass springalds, is boring is stupid, this unit should not be able to hit targets when moving specially cavā¦ relic cāmon I donāt want to play the rest of the year with springalds spam!! Fix your mess!
I want to play a game focused on military units noy only siege weapons that barely were used in medieval fightsā¦ Do we payed 60$ for this? You can release another hotfix patch, springalds are Cancer
2 Likes
They can leave the damage as it is, if they want to define it as a hard hitting + long distance siege unit. However, other aspect should be modified for balance:
- longer packing / unpacking time
- lower attach speed (one big KABOOM every 15 seconds or so would be closer to reality)
- turning more than 15Ā° on any direction should require packing/unpacking.
Apply two of these changes and we would have a more balanced unit, easier to target and with slower movement, but still capable to turn the tides of a battle.
4 Likes
The problem with springalds is springalds + infantry counter anything that isnāt more springalds. Horseman get shredded by spears and springalds with even a small number of spears counter knights. Not to mention for some reason springalds are just as fast as infantry units (even faster if you are mongol). I havenāt checked the math but I think springalds with the khan buff move faster than horse units which is just silly.
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After thinking about this some it makes a lot of sense that springalds are preforming so well and Iām not sure nerfing them is a good idea. The next two most powerful units are probably knights, and mangonels; both units that lose pretty hard to well microed springalds.
The devs will nerf them, already mentioned in the latest stream: They are intended as anti-siege only, not effective against cavalry.
To better counter cavalry, other units will be buffed:
Crossbowmen, Spearman and Elite Crossbowmen will pose a greater threat to Cavalry.
So hereās the stats for mongol springalds, number is shown tiles/sec per unit tooltip, and then attack speed per tooltip
base speed 1.00
just khan 1.33
just yam 1.15
khan + yam = 1.53
default upgrade without stone - 1.2
Default upgrade + yam, 1.38
upgrade + khan 1.6
upgrade + yam + khan 1.84
stone upgrade = 1.3
stone upgrade + yam 1.49
stone upgrade + Khan 1.73
stone upgrade + yam + khan arrow 1.99
Base attack speed - 4.00
Khan attack speed - 2.62
rolling shutters upgrade - 3.31
upgrade + khan - 1.94
rolling shutters stoned - 3.04
rolling stoned + khan - 1.66
and yes, it does appear itās rate of fire changes to a shot every 1.66 seconds while under khan arrow, based on shooting deer.
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Wow 1.53 is insane. For reference, knights are 1.62 and infantry are largely 1.12 or 1.25. Meaning just yam network, springalds are faster than maa, and with the khan buff they almost outrun knights.
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I think the only siege that should be field made are Siege towers (buff to allow archers to fire out of them and bypass wall defense bonus), Rams and Trebuchets. These are all basic siege units that can be made rudimentary.
Torsion driven machines require much more high tech parts, And the ropes are not something that could be field made. They would have to come from a factory.
All siege need to take longer to pack, but maybe some more than others. Spingalds should have a longer pack time so if someone sees a bunch of springs unpacking to counter them have an option to retreat, otherwise its just an instant delete. But I would be ok with springs havings a very slow speed when unpacked, and a faster speed while packed than mangonels (packed) . but the slower pack time helps balance those things. I see this working so that a player has a faster option to react to siege threats, but the enemy also has a chance to disengage
Culverins seem like they need a rework for the cost not being able to fire fast enough to match sping mass.
Bombards need way less dmg vs units. and a slower pack and move time/ speed.
3 Likes