Ladder games frequently get upwards of 10 and for units that are so expensive and time consuming to build not to mention in regards to pop space count as 3 units, that is a lot, too much IMO. The tournament games usually were surrendered before they got that high or they were consistently being whittled down in fights.
There were plenty of games going into late game, plenty of opportunities to spam springalds, we shouldāve seen droves of them at the end at least. But nobody is going to a match with the goal in mind āspam springalds by age 3ā and weād see it by both sides if it was such a dominant strategy. Instead it barely existed. And instead of talking against me, you could show me examples of matches where 10-15 springalds were made and then dominated the opponent.
Iām sure those matches are far and between and I canāt single out games on the final day where anybody was spamming them. Everyone was building them though, there was no reason not to, theyāre like a generalist ranged unit too good at what they do but still with distinct weaknesses that you could exploit.
Please watch it again, it came up when they were talking about AOE4 as an esport game. You are setting yourself up for disappointment if you assume them rebalancing springalds in the Winter Update.
(Iād like to be wrong though)
Perhaps I was misremembered where in the video it was, but Eric mainly provided commentary on upcoming changes and the way I interpret what he said was the balance team thinks springalds are too good vs non-siege. Imo that means we are very likely to see some kind of change, though it isnāt confirmed.
Yes they said that when talking about the genesis tournament. It was an observation during that tournament, so I donāt think we will see it this patch already when Eric says it will be addressed āin the futureā.
At 1:11:25:
1 Like
I donāt like building mass springalds.
If I donāt build mass springalds, I donāt stand a chance against a player that does. What are the supposed counters to springalds (other than springalds, especially from the Chinese or Rus)?
Horsemen melt before closing the distance, and canāt even reach the springalds if other units are mixed in.
Culverins are not cost effective relative to springalds and are equal or outranged by springalds.
Mass archers? Iāve seen this sort of work when the mass archers (esp. Longbows) can focus down springalds.
Hopefully, springald nerfs are included in one of the 100s of balance tweaks in the upcoming winter update.
3 Likes
they also move as fast as go-carts with the speed upgrade.
i too strongly dislike the mass springald meta, in 1v1s, teamgames and when spectating, its never fun as opposed to actual armies fighting and it certainly doesnāt seem like its intended use.
they are noted as an anti-siege unit it would be nice if that was their actual purpose, if it were, the movement speed and cost/hp make sense. as its currently so good vs all targets its movement speed is a real problem.
1 Like
Ummmmm, thatās the Horsemen special ability. They always melt.
Maybe swap the speed of the springald and the ribauld lol
Seige needs a limt to how many u can have so we donāt get people spamming siege not very fun at all seige needs to be address
You know while I was recently playing some hybrid maps. I noticed that Springalds have 60 damage as this damage helps them hit ships. That is in the case that you donāt really want to build ships yourself but want to have an answer.
Currently nerfing Springald damage to anything below 60 + the siege bonus would cause Springalds to be extremely bad against ships leaving you with no option prior to imperial [ Canons ] And games rarely get to imperial.
If they do nerf damage they will have to add an extra bonus against ships otherwise we will have no siege able of killing ships until Imperial and that is bad for the game balance.
1 Like
Springald is just a part of the problems. The main problem is Mangonel and NoB (in team games) in good numbers counter regular units too well that everyone will need Springald/Culverin to fight them. Whoever get a good shot with Mangonel will win, thatās why itās all ended up in a siege war.
3 Likes
I think all siege should move considerably slower. It would help greatly. Dmg can stay same but cav would counter it more easily and building mass siege would be more risky overall.
5 Likes
Lower 20 damage, 1 range, problem solved
Patch came with many more bugs and no springald changes, hilarious, so funny. TBH, Iām actually fine with springalds as they are. Just raid eco or stone wall. Since everyone isnāt happy with springalds I donāt mind if they are changed somehow. Bombards actually destroy springalds and you can move them on to kill buildings afterwards which you canāt really do with springalds. Some civs have stronger springalds and those can be scarry like fully upgraded mongol springalds
Play the new patch once and youāll see it wasnāt tested thoā¦ But very happy we at least have this forum to vent and the devs are listening.
I was surprised as well that the new patch didnāt nerf them
Can crossbows fight springalds now after the buff to cross bows?
You want springalds to snipe mangos, trebs and bombards. So I think you want them quick and strategic.
The problem comes when a unit is the best counter to itself. We need to find a paper that counters rock. But the problem is access. Its hard for āpaperā melee units to get access to the springalds due to choke points or infantry meatshield.
Reducing springald attack vs nonsiege helps, so does increasing pack time (I would leave deploy time as is.) Susceptibility to torch helps a little, too, but all of these are poor bandaids that miss the main point: you still have an access problem. If paper canāt get to rock, then thr only option is massing rock vs rock.
I canāt think of any solution except to lower the range of springalds. Or MAYBE increase the damage done to them by archers.
If you lower springald range to that of a mangonel, then it should be possible to counter springalds with mango shots on the meatshield paired with horsemen snipes. For the meatshield to protect the springalds, they would have to come to the front, which is in range of the mangonels. And the mangos would be out of range of the springalds.
Make springalds have armor vs mangos, and make them pack / unpack quickly but move slowly. Then, in order to use them vs siege, you have to push them out into danger, get a shot off, then run to protection or advance meatshield into enemy range. Theyāll be a strategic counter, and not an impenetrable defense shield.
The counter would then be horsemen + mango or archers to kill meatshield. A proper paper.
1 Like
lol make springalds do reduced damage to other springalds
I said this in beta and Iāll say it again here: siege setup times are WAY too quick. If siege took longer to set up and couldnāt rotate as freely you could make them as effing powerful as you want because there is still counterplay. Moreover, itās interesting counterplay and not ābuild springalds and/or suicide your horsemenā counterplay.
2 Likes